Recording Customs Not Bop Drums?

RobertM

Platinum Member
I just had someone recommend Pearl Masters Premium Birch to me. I don't really have the dough to go for the Sonor S-Classix, nor am I really taken by them. I was settling on the Yamaha Recording Customs in 14x18 bass, 14x14 floor, 8x12, 7.5x10. But a drum dealer suggested to me that while the RCs are great, they're not really bop drums.

Now, of course, tons of jazz fusion players have used RCs in the past, and I've seen jazz players like Terri Lyne Carrington and Matt Wilson use RCs at jazz festivals (kits supplied by the event, not theirs).

So, I don't necessarily buy the RCs aren't bop drums argument. However, I am slightly intrigued by the Pearl MPB--they seem like good drums, more variety in finishes than the RCs, have die-cast hoops. I was recommended going with the 6-ply birch shell option (7.5mm thickness, I think) compared to the 4-ply/5mm option that has the 4-ply rerings.

Are the Pearls worth it? Or, is the history, YESS/roller-ball arm system vs. Opti-mount/tube arm system, and resale value of the RCs the better way to go?

Note: I would consider the Yamaha Absolute Birch, but I don't think I can order that kit with the old YESS system (i.e., I don't really want the new YESS with the big metal plate, which debuted at NAMM).

Perplexing decisions...
 
Robert, you are a mess! ( ; )


It really depends on your definition of bop drums. For me bop drums mean only 2 things. Sizes & Maple shells.

Maple sings more than birch, and boppy sounds emerge from high tuned 10", 14", 16/18" well made maple shells.

My kit a Yamaha MCAN generically has a very jazzy sound. Regardless of tuning.

I've gigged on RCs and they are great drums, no doubt, but I would'nt go out of the way to call them 'jazzy' or boppy. Or for that matter any Birch kit.....NOT TO SAY that birch kits don't work in bop or jazz settings.

I hope I've succeeded in messin you up a little more. : )


.............
 
Robert, you are a mess! ( ; )


It really depends on your definition of bop drums. For me bop drums mean only 2 things. Sizes & Maple shells.
.............

...but...but...but....

What about mahogany???
100_2105.jpg
 
...but...but...but....

What about mahogany???

Sure, any singing shell will do. Mahogany sings. Bubinga too, though it has a lower tone than maple. But to include Birch in this category is a stretch.

Birch has 'other' wonderful 'thuddy' qualities.

( Nice Slingy. )
 
Sure, any singing shell will do. Mahogany sings. Bubinga too, though it has a lower tone than maple. But to include Birch in this category is a stretch.

Birch has 'other' wonderful 'thuddy' qualities.

( Nice Slingy. )

Yeah, oak is out too. Too much "bite"
drum%20010.jpg
 
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Yeah, oak is out too. Too much "bite"

Did I mention, ' Anything goes' ? To quote the legendary Jaco Francis Pastorious: " Gimme your bass, and git me a gig".

Splitting hairs can be fun on drum forums. I suddenly feel like a wine taster. : )

I like Oak. It has a woody, full body thud, but can get somewhat pingy if tweaked in a smoky jazz setting
 
Did I mention, ' Anything goes' ? To quote the legendary Jaco Francis Pastorious: " Gimme your bass, and git me a gig".

Splitting hairs can be fun on drum forums. I suddenly feel like a wine taster. : )

I like Oak. It has a woody, full body thud, but can get somewhat pingy if tweaked in a smoky jazz setting

I was just having fun finding pics of cool bop kits.

The oak kit FYI: Made in USA, "Made from our own handcrafted steambent solid shells!
Available in Maple, Cherry, Oak, Walnut, African Mahogany and other speciality woods."


$3999 for the kit.

www.wittpercussion.com
 
i have an 18x16 RC floor tom that i put wood hoops and spurs on that i call a bass drum. even though its "deep" for a jazz bass i can still get it to bop territory, though i don't really dig that sound as i rarely get to play real straight ahead. The drum has 6 plys, as opposed to the 7 in "actual" bass drums. i wonder if that makes the difference?
 
Robert M. This is the classic "bop" tone coming from drums, in my opinion. The first is the Gretsch/Keller gum/maple shell cranked up big time.. Scroll to 1:41, and PLEASE don't use wimpy speakers or you won't hear schit.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcNvFc-rBjI&feature=PlayList&p=6F3848EC9494A300&playnext=1&index=2

The second is what DW copied Gretsch with in order to crank up the shells and not choke, which they admit, (Gumwood/Maple) VERY SIMILAR SOUND, EH? They could'nt do that with a regular maple shell and die cast. Scroll to :45

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki2sI7_qTvs&feature=PlayList&p=4A80610C4ED1B93B&playnext=1&index=23

The third is a Yamaha PHX. Yamaha could actually do this with the current, Classic Maple Custom with slightly thicker shells and gold lugs IMO, but this is the Phoenix, CRANKED. The tom is'nt tuned perfect to my ears, but the floor and kick are rockin.

3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBH1ajLNguY
 
Yes, I know I'm a mess, Aydee!

Glad to see Wavelength chimed in to birch's defense--don't insult the Kumus! And perhaps to prove Wave's point, here's Jason Marsalis using what looks to be an older Yamaha RC kit for jazz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NizVQ_4ZcQ

Well, I have a Yamaha maple kit (MCANs) with a 20" kick, which is why I wanted to do something a little different. I've never had/played a birch kit.

I suppose I could consider Tama SC Bubingas, but then the price goes up. The birch kits are nicely affordable in comparison.

Are the Pearls just a bad idea? I swore I'd never play Pearl again after I got rid of my old '89 Pearl Exports a couple of years ago. I had that kit forever but absolutely hated Pearl's mounting system. Granted, this is way before the invention of the Opti-mount aluminum stuff now on the Masters kits, but Pearl's current mounts do not have the same roller-ball action that Yamaha and Tama have, right?

Thanks!
 
Just to add to the fun debate--my old jazz teacher's stance:

"I think the Maple customs work better. Overall, the drum sizes make the difference, not the wood type."

Won't be doing Yamaha Maple Customs, though--too expensive, and too heavy.
 
Robert M. This is the classic "bop" tone coming from drums, in my opinion. The first is the Gretsch/Keller gum/maple shell cranked up big time.. Scroll to 1:41, and PLEASE don't use wimpy speakers or you won't hear schit.

The third is a Yamaha PHX. Yamaha could actually do this with the current, Classic Maple Custom with slightly thicker shells and gold lugs IMO, but this is the Phoenix, CRANKED. The tom is'nt tuned perfect to my ears, but the floor and kick are rockin.

3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBH1ajLNguY

Yamaha told the truth! The kit does not sound like a "thick" Sonor kit from the 80's. It sounds PHAT! I just wish the price wasn't so PHAT. Perhaps the rack tom does sound a bit too deep in context.

I like the PHX!
 
Yes, I know I'm a mess, Aydee!

Glad to see Wavelength chimed in to birch's defense--don't insult the Kumus!

Kumus don't count in this argument. They are 'other worldly' masterpieces not to be confused or spoken in the same breath as the run-of-the-mill plebs of the drumworld like yamaha, DW, Sonor etc...

Heck, they are the prettiest, best sounding kit on this forum, period. By far. Drummer 'aint half bad either.
 
Kumus don't count in this argument. They are 'other worldly' masterpieces not to be confused or spoken in the same breath as the run-of-the-mill plebs of the drumworld like yamaha, DW, Sonor etc...

Heck, they are the prettiest, best sounding kit on this forum, period. By far. Drummer 'aint half bad either.

Yeah, to support your point, I think the Kumus use Scandinavian Birch with super thin shells, no? Yup: here it is:

  • the shell thickness for toms and snare drums is 3.6 mm / 4 ply
  • for bass drums 5.5 mm / 5 ply

The closest "pleb" drums get to that are the Pearl Masters Premium Birch: they can do 4-ply / 5 mm shells with 4 ply rerings.

The Kumus in my jazz setup would be $3600! (around 2850 Euros)

!
 
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