Drummers need to stop comparing techniques and start learning them all!

dazzlez

Senior Member
Until quite recently I've always thought in the same way most beginner/intermediate drummers do. " What technique is best? Matched or Trad? Heel-up or heel-down? Double bass or single bass? Open-handed or crossed? Fingers vs Wrist" and the answer was usually:"Doesn't matter! You can achieve all you want with either technique!"

I was happy with that answer and went on learning what seemed popular at this moment, matched grip with focus on my fingers combined with heel-toe constant release(!)

Now I feel stupid when I got the realization that ALL techniques are great and they apply the best to different situations. You should if you wanna have the best technique ever actually learn them all. Both heel-down and heel-up, heel-toe and constant release, matched AND traditional, open-handed AND crossed. Just look at Jojo and Weckl. It's not like they chosen only heel-down and matched grip and then became the best using only those techniques...

The real question shouldn't be "which technique is best?"

It should be which technique do i start with? Which techniques are essential to learn and which are really advanced?
I wish I had a guidebook when I was starting out that told me to start practicing traditional grip sooner, using mainly the wrist in the beginning and to only focus only on heel-down in the beginning before moving on to other techniques later on.
 
totally disagree

learning "all techniques" is a complete waste of time

play the way you feel comfortable and focus on making the most musical sound with your instrument

our end result should be to make music not to be a technician

go watch Art Blakey play .... by todays standards the mans technique was awful.....but it worked amazingly well for him ... he is one of the most musical drummers to ever breathe our air

so I believe the title of this thread should be .... drummers need to stop worrying so much about all these techniques and use the ones most natural to them and the ones that facilitate making music
 
IMO both Tony's and Dazzlez's points are equally valid. If learning all the techniques lights your fire, great. If you realize that perhaps it's best to focus only on what comes naturally...equally great! That's the great thing about drumming, you can make it be whatever you want it to be. It's a lump of clay.
 
I can't really see where it would be either practical or useful to master all techniques. I'm more in the Tony camp on this one. It seems to me technique is but a means to an end, therefore the only real reason to learn a new technique is if you find yourself unable to express what you want to say with your current technique.
 
I can't really see where it would be either practical or useful to master all techniques. I'm more in the Tony camp on this one. It seems to me technique is but a means to an end, therefore the only real reason to learn a new technique is if you find yourself unable to express what you want to say with your current technique.

I think there are things that aren't being considered. Like what if a person wanted to learn trad grip after many years of matched grip. Assume that this person will not really use trad grip in their day to day playing. Well learning it anyway could very well provide a different mental approach that might feel fresh and inspiring and affect the matched grip playing. What's wrong with that?

The only thing I'm saying is there's as many ways to approach the drums as there are drummers. It's up to the individual, and that's the beauty of it. Learning different techniques is not detrimental, is it? It's another skill. Sounds to me like Dazzlez got excited over a discovery he made on his own that motivates him, and he wanted to share. Great! OK maybe it's not the best approach for everyone's situation. So what? It excites Dazzlez and that's enough. More power to him. Drumming is all about figuring out what works for the individual, that's the beauty of it.
 
I think there are things that aren't being considered. Like what if a person wanted to learn trad grip after many years of matched grip. Assume that this person will not really use trad grip in their day to day playing. Well learning it anyway could very well provide a different mental approach that might feel fresh and inspiring and affect the matched grip playing. What's wrong with that?

The only thing I'm saying is there's as many ways to approach the drums as there are drummers. It's up to the individual, and that's the beauty of it. Learning different techniques is not detrimental, is it? It's another skill. Sounds to me like Dazzlez got excited over a discovery he made on his own that motivates him, and he wanted to share. Great! OK maybe it's not the best approach for everyone's situation. So what? It excites Dazzlez and that's enough. More power to him. Drumming is all about figuring out what works for the individual, that's the beauty of it.

I personally don't consider a grip a technique

you can learn many techniques within a grip.... but to me a grip itself is not a technique .... more just a way to hold a stick

I also think too many players force certain techniques because they see them on a DVD and feel they have to master it

I think if you don't feel something natural within it maybe you should not force it.... there are plenty techniques that will feel great to you.....use those

not all of them have to have these names and titles.... sometimes it is just what works for your musical endeavor

I feel the same about stickings.... we force sticking upon our playing when we should use the ones that feel natural at an early stage
 
I think the take away here is that there's no substitute to trying all techniques. Tony, how do you choose a technique that's most comfortable if you only learn the first one you are taught? Its not going to hurt you to learn how control sticks and pedals in every way possible, it will probably even increase your facility on the instrument.

Eventually everyone will land on a technique and style that fits them best, but when you are starting out, do your best to learn all the techniques and schools of thought you can so you can make informed decisions.
 
our end result should be to make music not to be a technician

... so I believe the title of this thread should be .... drummers need to stop worrying so much about all these techniques and use the ones most natural to them and the ones that facilitate making music

Exactly. Other than originally learning traditional grip (which is just how it was in 1965) I don't think I've studied any particular techniques. However, I have learned that playing certain parts/figures comes more naturally with various mechanics. I think I've stumbled upon everything because my hands or feet feel more natural with certain movements, but they're not the result of study. Turns out I've had some Moeller tendencies all along, since before I'd even heard of him.

Some things just come naturally, as they undoubtedly did for those who later taught them as technique.

But back to the traditional grip - I only use it when I need to play open or closed rolls. The rest of the time, I'm matched, and have no problem switching in the middle of a song if needed. Someone asked why I don't simply learn to play rolls with matched grip, and I said 'I already know how to do rolls.' For them, there was an apparent importance about the method used, but for me, it's more important to play the roll.

Bermuda
 
Tony that's interesting re: grip is not a technique. I guess it's part of an individuals technique but not the whole enchilada?

So Tony, curious, what does technique mean to you?
 
I think the take away here is that there's no substitute to trying all techniques. Tony, how do you choose a technique that's most comfortable if you only learn the first one you are taught? Its not going to hurt you to learn how control sticks and pedals in every way possible, it will probably even increase your facility on the instrument.

Eventually everyone will land on a technique and style that fits them best, but when you are starting out, do your best to learn all the techniques and schools of thought you can so you can make informed decisions.

I have never in my entire life "worked on " a technique

I started drumming at age 4 and never once purposely sat down to learn a technique.....everything I use to this day came completely naturally .... as techniques will if you just play music

as a teen I remember a drummer at a gig commenting on my nice "slide technique" on the bass drum.... I said thank you but had no idea what he was talking about until years later

my very first teacher at my very first lesson asked me who taught me "Moeller Technique" again I had no idea what he was talking about because "Moeller technique" is nothing more than a natural motion that any player who plays music long enough will eventually develop..... that is why I refuse to call it "Moeller Technique"

just a few weeks ago at Maxwells drumshop in NYC I was messing around on a pad while talking to Jess the manager and a guy maybe in his early 20s asked me how long it took me to get my "open/close" so smooth..... I answered I had no idea because I never worked on it for one minute of my life

bottom line..... if you sit and study these techniques with all your DVDs and youtube videos thats fine.....I myself have to teach certain techniques to my students every day.... but we definitely don't stress on it.... nor do we stress using "all techniques"

we stress making music and developing an appealing sound.... and the only way to sound natural is to play natural .... I guide my students toward techniques that will benefit what I see from their natural movements

so however any individual feels comfortable moving the sticks and allowing the stick to help them make music I'm all for it

but stressing learning "all techniques" is nothing more than a waste of time in my humble opinion
 
I think there are things that aren't being considered. Like what if a person wanted to learn trad grip after many years of matched grip. Assume that this person will not really use trad grip in their day to day playing. Well learning it anyway could very well provide a different mental approach that might feel fresh and inspiring and affect the matched grip playing. What's wrong with that?

The only thing I'm saying is there's as many ways to approach the drums as there are drummers. It's up to the individual, and that's the beauty of it. Learning different techniques is not detrimental, is it? It's another skill. Sounds to me like Dazzlez got excited over a discovery he made on his own that motivates him, and he wanted to share. Great! OK maybe it's not the best approach for everyone's situation. So what? It excites Dazzlez and that's enough. More power to him. Drumming is all about figuring out what works for the individual, that's the beauty of it.

I don't really disagree with what you've said here, Larry. I just don't think a person should devote a lot of time to learning techniques for technique's sake. The time would, IMO, be better spent just making music.

I'm not draconian at all about drumming - I fully agree that it's all about figuring out what works for the individual. Sometimes I see people with terrible inefficiencies in the mechanics of their playing, and I want to say "Here, do it this way!!" but I refrain. If they are saying what they want to say with the instrument, I only have a choice of liking it, or not. It's not my business how they get there.
 
I have never in my entire life "worked on " a technique

I'm very excited for you, but for most of us, mastering something as simple as a double stroke roll doesn't just come "naturally". You have to practice and teach your muscles how to properly control the stick. Its called practicing a technique.

Certain figures you can't play without practicing the technique required to play them. Their are many different ways to play the same figures. Breaking out of your comfort zone and learning to feel comfortable with all those techniques can only increase your overall facility on the instrument. You my find techniques that are more comfortable to you than you thought.

Case and point: My relationship with playing heel down on my kick. I used to be a heel up kinda guy, but I decided to learn something new and I've found I like playing heel down much more. If I had never done that because it didn't feel "natural" at first, I would be less of a music than I am now. And now that I am comfortable with both, I can express myself much much fluidly and dynamically on the instrument. Win Win. Why be against that?
 
I;m with Tony as well on this one.

It is really easy to spend a lot of practice time on technique with no real understanding of how it applies to music but if you look at the 2 best technicians in drumming (imo) Thomas Lang and Jojo Mayer they developed technique and learned the new ones in order to play the sounds they hear in their heads.

So even though they can do things most drummers can't it was just necessary for them to express themselves in music.

As Tony says most of the main big techniques such as Moeller/Free Stroke/ Finger/ Heel Up or down/Slide even heel toe to a certain degree are natural and just happen and many of the hand ones develop from rudiments and groove playing.

Once you know what you are doing then you can refine which will make the execution of your musical ideas smoother.

D
 
I'm very excited for you, but for most of us, mastering something as simple as a double stroke roll doesn't just come "naturally". You have to practice and teach your muscles how to properly control the stick. Its called practicing a technique.

Certain figures you can't play without practicing the technique required to play them. Their are many different ways to play the same figures. Breaking out of your comfort zone and learning to feel comfortable with all those techniques can only increase your overall facility on the instrument. You my find techniques that are more comfortable to you than you thought.

Case and point: My relationship with playing heel down on my kick. I used to be a heel up kinda guy, but I decided to learn something new and I've found I like playing heel down much more. If I had never done that because it didn't feel "natural" at first, I would be less of a music than I am now. And now that I am comfortable with both, I can express myself much much fluidly and dynamically on the instrument. Win Win. Why be against that?

I'll probably pre emt Tony here but a double stroke roll isn't a technique. Maybe by doing it you have learned some sort of push pull/drop catch technique but you learned that through playing something musical not just doing drop catch for hours on end and then trying to put it into a double stroke.

Also I would go along with the idea that if match grip and trad aren't techniques but just ways of holding a stick then heel down and up are just ways of moving a pedal vs slide or heel toe or pivot or anything else which are more specific mechanical things.

D
 
Funny my technique story is opposite of yours Tony. My drumming really kind of sucked until I took lessons. My teacher, from day one, definitely taught a certain technique and was a stickler about it. He focused on it and I am glad he did, because it really turned my hands around. It allowed me to execute stuff that I just couldn't before. It gave me control. I am very grateful for those 6 months of lessons.

So that's that's my story and it worked for me. I am forever grateful for the technique I was taught. I feel it transformed me from a crap drummer to a guy who now had a shot at being a "real' drummer. Everybody has their own journey and it's cool hearing how others "did it".
 
.... drummers need to stop worrying so much about all these techniques and use the ones most natural to them and the ones that facilitate making music

Technique can be important, especially if you can't play what it is you're trying to express. I switched up my approach to technique because I needed to get to another level - I just could not do it with the tools that I had (or ''developed" through my travels). What I ended up with has been much more natural feeling technique (grip, motions...) and my playing is in a place I could have never imagined.

IMO a lot players are chasing their tales with this technique and that, running before they can crawl... dazzlez, to answer your question - if you're looking for some direction among all of these techniques and catch-phrases - start with learning something really fundamental like the Freestroke. Everything else will come from there. When I say everything else, I'm definitely not saying to spend precious time learning every technique. Like Tony said, use the ones most natural to you.
 
I don't really disagree with what you've said here, Larry. I just don't think a person should devote a lot of time to learning techniques for technique's sake. The time would, IMO, be better spent just making music.

I'm not draconian at all about drumming - I fully agree that it's all about figuring out what works for the individual. Sometimes I see people with terrible inefficiencies in the mechanics of their playing, and I want to say "Here, do it this way!!" but I refrain. If they are saying what they want to say with the instrument, I only have a choice of liking it, or not. It's not my business how they get there.

Just for the record, I am basically in Tony's camp in that I don't want to practice anything that I won't be using, like trad grip or heel toe for instance. But if someone is excited over learning all the different techniques and wants to take a stab at them, I have to admire that. I'm far too lazy to attempt it.

It may not be an efficient use of time, but sometimes there are more important things than being efficient. Expanding one's skill set is still growth. Nothing wrong there.
 
I'll probably pre emt Tony here but a double stroke roll isn't a technique. Maybe by doing it you have learned some sort of push pull/drop catch technique but you learned that through playing something musical not just doing drop catch for hours on end and then trying to put it into a double stroke.

Also I would go along with the idea that if match grip and trad aren't techniques but just ways of holding a stick then heel down and up are just ways of moving a pedal vs slide or heel toe or pivot or anything else which are more specific mechanical things.

D

I don't know how you learned, but I learned through the band program at my school, so no, there was nothing musical about my first two years of playing. It was all about how to properly hold and effectively control the stick. A yes, hours of building building muscles playing things in different way with different stick heights, etc. And obviously a double stroke roll isn't a technique, but you have to be proficient at certain techniques in order to play one well.

My heel up / heel down story.. I thought it'd be clear but learning the heel down / heel up including slide and heel toe and things that allow you to play certain figures. Otherwise, the switch would be pretty superficial. Learning to play without burying the beater goes along with that as well, it was difficult to break that habit. Even though it wasn't comfortable at first, I'm glad I did it..................
 
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