how to use Stick Control

shred36 said:
Cool I'll try to make something that could do the job, how do you manage to keep track when you have exercices with different books or dvd's ?
I usually work with one book at the time because trying to keep track of more than one is confusing me and also because I write directly on the book itself.
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Good question ... I feel that working on only one aspect of technique at a time would be too limiting (and boring). Also, not terribly productive.

My personal view is that it's preferable to mix up your practice time with a variety of dimensions - e.g., rudiments, 4-limb independence, grooves/fills, sticking/accents, "jam" time to have musical fun and discovery ...

So what I've found helpful is to make a (monthly) page for each book or resource I'm working with, 3-hole punch the pages, and keep them in a loose-leaf binder with a different tab for each section/topic.

Unless I have extra time to practice, I rarely get to everything in the book each day - maybe I can devote some serious effort to 2-3 topics if I'm lucky. But over the course of a week or so I can track significant progress cumulatively but noting where I'm improving on each dimension. I can also see at a glance where I've been neglecting practice, so I can devote some additional time for a while to not lose the skills previously gained.

Currently, I'm working with about 6-7 total sections and seeing significant progress in my playing, which becomes more visually obviously when I review my checkmarks, metronome speeds, or whatever other relevant notes I've made in the boxes. It's rewarding to see exercises mastered in these workbook tracking sheets that posed major challenges just a few weeks earlier.

Whatever works for each individual is the best way to go. But if you get organized you can more easily see where you're making progress and base any adjustments in your practice time on the facts, not just your fading memory of how you were doing a few months earlier.

Hope some of this helps.
 
thanks for you input OneWatt

so you keep one "journal" per book, dvd or teacher lesson per month right ?

What time do you spend reviewing everything to check what you have done and more importantly what you are missing ? Do you "feel" it or do you have to read it in your papers ?

being organized and keeping track is a performance booster, I totally agree wit
 
shred36 said:
thanks for you input OneWatt

so you keep one "journal" per book, dvd or teacher lesson per month right ?

What time do you spend reviewing everything to check what you have done and more importantly what you are missing ? Do you "feel" it or do you have to read it in your papers ?

being organized and keeping track is a performance booster, I totally agree wit
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Mmm, good questions. So you got me thinking...

Normally going into the details of how one practices can come off as pretty self-indulgent, but since you're asking, I'll share the details of my own routine in hopes it offers some ideas. In that spirit, I hope other posters will do the same...

So, yes I review my charts and notes every few weeks or so, with the notion that the perspective of weeks or more provides enough distance to begin to spot patterns and trends (and hopefully progress) in my playing. Alternatively, if I had my nose right up against measuring such progress each and every day I'd likely get caught in dashed hopes for immediate results - which would be unrealistic and frustrating.

Having said that, before starting an exercise I almost always look at the prior session's entry (and perhaps several day's boxes just prior) to evaluate whether it's time to "up the stakes" vs continuing along at the same pace.

Depending on the exercise, I'll also check my notes from most recent prior practice to consider whether to use the same technique or switch things up (e.g., I switch between traditional and matched, thin/thicker sticks, swing vs straight feel, etc., all in an effort to stay well-rounded and have "options" for playing style/feel).

To confirm, yes I keep one of those "journal" pages per month for each individual focus (book/DVD/exercise) - and they all go in one single 3-ring binder with separation tabs for each exercise focus, such that the months accumulate under each tab (one tab per focus). This single 3-ring binder sits right next to my kit, so it's always within reach when I sit down to play.

Since each tab has its own divider, and I keep the most current month up front (with prior months behind), by just flipping through the tabs it's pretty clear which exercises I haven't gotten to in a while ... too many blank boxes ... in which case I'll either make a concerted effort to spend more practice time working on that exercise, or reconsider whether that particular area is really as important to me at the present, in which case I may shelve it for a while.

Of course spending too much time limiting one's practice to ANY one thing can get very monotonous and uninspiring. So I do mix it up as much as possible every few days - rotating with a little more time in one area vs another, while trying to work on 2-3 areas each day if possible. (If my time is really limited, I place first priority on rudiments - since the benefits of that slow>fast>slow cycle while emphasizing perfect technique and articulation has spillover benefits to every other aspect of practice.)

Again, the specific areas of focus for me these days (with a divider tab for each) are:

Rudiments/ritual (Dawson's approach as explained by Ramsey);
Accents & Rebounds (Stone) for hands;
Foot control (using Stick Control for L and R feet);
4-way Coordination exercises (Dawson's use of "Syncopation" as explained by Ramsey);
Holmquist's full drum kit exercises, for some musicality;
Wilcoxon's rudimental "swing" exercises;

along with other treats like Morello's "Rudimental Jazz" - playing rudiments all around the kit, or Erskine's "Essential Drum Fills" which is enjoyable.

And finally of course, there's the jamming time, using drumless tunes and patterns where I try my best to apply all of those various skills and ideas picked up from all of the above. The most rewarding thing is when it all comes together like that.

Hope some of this detail might be of use or interest to you or others down the road. If not, no flaming please! :)
 

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OneWatt said:
Mmm, good questions. So you got me thinking...

Normally going into the details of how one practices can come off as pretty self-indulgent, but since you're asking, I'll share the details of my own routine in hopes it offers some ideas. In that spirit, I hope other posters will do the same...

So, yes I review my charts and notes every few weeks or so, with the notion that the perspective of weeks or more provides enough distance to begin to spot patterns and trends (and hopefully progress) in my playing. Alternatively, if I had my nose right up against measuring such progress each and every day I'd likely get caught in dashed hopes for immediate results - which would be unrealistic and frustrating.

Having said that, before starting an exercise I almost always look at the prior session's entry (and perhaps several day's boxes just prior) to evaluate whether it's time to "up the stakes" vs continuing along at the same pace.

Depending on the exercise, I'll also check my notes from most recent prior practice to consider whether to use the same technique or switch things up (e.g., I switch between traditional and matched, thin/thicker sticks, swing vs straight feel, etc., all in an effort to stay well-rounded and have "options" for playing style/feel).

To confirm, yes I keep one of those "journal" pages per month for each individual focus (book/DVD/exercise) - and they all go in one single 3-ring binder with separation tabs for each exercise focus, such that the months accumulate under each tab (one tab per focus). This single 3-ring binder sits right next to my kit, so it's always within reach when I sit down to play.

Since each tab has its own divider, and I keep the most current month up front (with prior months behind), by just flipping through the tabs it's pretty clear which exercises I haven't gotten to in a while ... too many blank boxes ... in which case I'll either make a concerted effort to spend more practice time working on that exercise, or reconsider whether that particular area is really as important to me at the present, in which case I may shelve it for a while.

Of course spending too much time limiting one's practice to ANY one thing can get very monotonous and uninspiring. So I do mix it up as much as possible every few days - rotating with a little more time in one area vs another, while trying to work on 2-3 areas each day if possible. (If my time is really limited, I place first priority on rudiments - since the benefits of that slow>fast>slow cycle while emphasizing perfect technique and articulation has spillover benefits to every other aspect of practice.)

Again, the specific areas of focus for me these days (with a divider tab for each) are:

Rudiments/ritual (Dawson's approach as explained by Ramsey);
Accents & Rebounds (Stone) for hands;
Foot control (using Stick Control for L and R feet);
4-way Coordination exercises (Dawson's use of "Syncopation" as explained by Ramsey);
Holmquist's full drum kit exercises, for some musicality;
Wilcoxon's rudimental "swing" exercises;

along with other treats like Morello's "Rudimental Jazz" - playing rudiments all around the kit, or Erskine's "Essential Drum Fills" which is enjoyable.

And finally of course, there's the jamming time, using drumless tunes and patterns where I try my best to apply all of those various skills and ideas picked up from all of the above. The most rewarding thing is when it all comes together like that.

Hope some of this detail might be of use or interest to you or others down the road. If not, no flaming please! :)
Click to expand...

I am glad to see that someone has a similar practice routine very similar to mine, many of the same books, same type of note taking, and same practice segments . I find it motivating but I was worried it just might be a bit compulsive, maybe both.
 
Griffman said:
I am glad to see that someone has a similar practice routine very similar to mine, many of the same books, same type of note taking, and same practice segments . I find it motivating but I was worried it just might be a bit compulsive, maybe both.
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ok my friend... let's admit it... we're both compulsive :)
 
OneWatt said:
ok my friend... let's admit it... we're both compulsive :)
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Are there more than you out there? I'm working on some drum training apps, and for some time I have thought about adding some kind of automatic "logbook" or "practice graph" based on the time spent on each exercise. Something similar to the popular sport training apps, but for drummers.

So far I have thought no one would be interested, but I might be wrong...?
 
Skrivarna said:
Are there more than you out there? I'm working on some drum training apps, and for some time I have thought about adding some kind of automatic "logbook" or "practice graph" based on the time spent on each exercise. Something similar to the popular sport training apps, but for drummers.

So far I have thought no one would be interested, but I might be wrong...?
Click to expand...

I've used spiral bound notebooks in the past but recently I've turned to apps to save money on books and mainly to reduce clutter. I used to use an app called Musician's Practice Journal but yesterday I picked up an app called Praxis. It's similar to the latter except that it is more features and more visually appealing, which is very important to me. The developer answered all my support questions almost immediately and was very nice and helpful.

Do yourselves a favor and please check out Praxis now!
 
drumming sort of person said:
Dawson's book is what you're looking for.
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Yes, this book is superb in every respect. It's filled with enough material to keep many of us busy for the rest our lives. But at the risk of putting too fine a point on it, it's John Ramsay's book written about Dawson's teaching methods, giving full credit to his master teacher all along the way, of course.
 
I see too many people delving into Stick Control when it states clearly in the preface that this is an advanced book. It is more important to have good control over the rudiments before even thinking of stick control
 
I see too many people delving into Stick Control when it states clearly in the preface that this is an advanced book. It is more important to have good control over the rudiments before even thinking of stick control
 
Grolubao said:
I see too many people delving into Stick Control when it states clearly in the preface that this is an advanced book. It is more important to have good control over the rudiments before even thinking of stick control
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With all due respect, the author George Stone doesn't suggest that the material is only to be used after having good control over the rudiments (at least in my edition of Stick Control). Please take another look at your copy ;-)

On the contrary, he characterizes the exercises as being appropriate for all levels of drummers and notes that they're adaptable to all sorts of styles and skill levels.

IMHO, the more deeply students delve into Stick Control - in all the ways it can be adapted - as part of a well-rounded learning regime the better off they'll be in making lasting and practical progress.

While I respect your opinion, I'm afraid your comment left unanswered might turn away some beginners from making use of a superb learning tool early on in their drumming journey. I hope you might reconsider.
 
Grolubao said:
I see too many people delving into Stick Control when it states clearly in the preface that this is an advanced book. It is more important to have good control over the rudiments before even thinking of stick control
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Are you sure you're not thinking of the preface to Stone's Accents and Rebounds? He states there that it's an advanced book, and should only be used after the drummer had practiced out of Stick Control.

I actually think that an argument could be made that practicing the first page or so out of Stick Control could be beneficial before even delving into the rudiments (although, as we all know, the first page of Stick Control contains the two most important rudiments already in exercises 1-4: the single and double stroke roll). You don't have to worry about accents or grace notes, and can focus entirely on developing the most basic stroke.
 
Grolubao said:
I see too many people delving into Stick Control when it states clearly in the preface that this is an advanced book. It is more important to have good control over the rudiments before even thinking of stick control
Click to expand...

It does say that "it is an advanced book" in the preface, describing a dozen areas of technique that it will help improve. But it goes on to state that it "contains a wealth of material" for developing the drummer's weak hand in order to develop ambidexterity. Then it notes that "being entirely mechanical in scope", it won't conflict with other drumming systems. Also, that it "will work wonders" for among others, student or expert drummers, but most importantly, "the author recommends the service of a local expert instructor, whenever such services are available."

I take all of this to mean that yes, it's advanced. But that it is to be used in tandem with rudimental practice and other material. And again- most importantly- under the guidance of a qualified teacher.
 
Don't get me wrong, Stick Control is probably the best book that exists, but simply it is an advanced book. It clearly states:

15oa5uu.png



So for someone that is not advanced I would focus first on the rudiments, study them slowly and steady and only when that is somehow mastered I would move to Stick Control, that what is being taught to me and I totally agree with this approach.

By the way, this was the approach that Murray Spivack followed and he taught many greats such as Vinnie, Garibaldi, Louis Bellson, so he must know it better than I do. He only introduced Stick Control after roughly one year with the student.
 
Grolubao said:
Don't get me wrong, Stick Control is probably the best book that exists, but simply it is an advanced book. It clearly states:

15oa5uu.png



So for someone that is not advanced I would focus first on the rudiments, study them slowly and steady and only when that is somehow mastered I would move to Stick Control, that what is being taught to me and I totally agree with this approach.

By the way, this was the approach that Murray Spivack followed and he taught many greats such as Vinnie, Garibaldi, Louis Bellson, so he must know it better than I do. He only introduced Stick Control after roughly one year with the student.
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I would respectfully submit that you've taken that single passage out of the context of the rest of Stone's intro, which is worth reading in full. But hey, to each his/her own.

Happily, as with any instrument, there's too much to master in a single lifetime anyhow... enjoy!
 
Stone isn't the only one who gets to have an opinion about it. Whatever it says in the preface, teachers have been using it effectively with beginning-to-advanced students for many decades now-- the field has kind of spoken on how it's to be used. It's not at all unreasonable to use a few of the early pages during the first weeks or months of playing the drums.
 
What a strange turn this thread has taken. Not for beginners? Really? Have you looked at the thing? I'd argue it's the most perfect book for a beginner there is. Any idiot with a right and left hand is able to get started started on the most basic form, straight away. The book even incorporates several of the rudiments and their inversions within the first few pages. Ignore all the Dawson-esque applications that can be applied later and just concentrate on the exercises as written and it doesn't get any easier for a beginner than that, surely?
 
Grolubao said:
Don't get me wrong, Stick Control is probably the best book that exists, but simply it is an advanced book. It clearly states:

15oa5uu.png



So for someone that is not advanced I would focus first on the rudiments, study them slowly and steady and only when that is somehow mastered I would move to Stick Control, that what is being taught to me and I totally agree with this approach.

By the way, this was the approach that Murray Spivack followed and he taught many greats such as Vinnie, Garibaldi, Louis Bellson, so he must know it better than I do. He only introduced Stick Control after roughly one year with the student.
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When I master them, I'll let you know. In the meantime, I'll work with Stick Control too ;-)

I'm being tongue-in-cheek. I know you qualified it as "somehow mastered". But in the same vein, Stone qualifies his suggestion on how to use it and includes I wide spectrum of playing levels and styles. (See attached). He also explicitly states that "any instructor may assign its pages, at his discretion, concurrently with his regular assignment to the pupil."

This isn't to contradict Murray Spivack's approach. But there are many other successful teachers who have used it concurrently with other material from the get go. My first teacher had me use it right from the start as we worked on a few basic rudiments and reading exercises. And Alan Dawson had me work out of it, right off the bat as we worked on rudiments and Ted Reed's book. (This was his hand conditioning application of SC as opposed to his full drum set, song form lessons which came a bit later). And more than once, after I would say, "but my last teacher said XXXX...", he would say, "This doesn't necessarily contradict what you were being taught."
 

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