More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Funny how I'm disagreeing with you here again, Larry, but not to worry - I just think you should give yourself more credit :)

I think it's really hard not to be some measure of both art and craft, but probably should qualify that with what I think each means. As I see it, the craft is how well you use the tools at your disposal (with both gear selection and playing ability); and the art of it is what you choose to play or not play as a reflection of your aesthetic and artistic sense.

I think you use both in spades, Larry. From taking great care with your gear selections, tunings and timing issues, to making sure you're forever being appropriate and sensitive to the the music and the other players. Quite possible for a high-caliber craftsman to come in and blast-beat the shit outta yer blooz gig! The art component is definitely part of your vibe.

Why is that an either / or again? ha ha :)

'
I get alot from the disagreements. I think it's a good opportunity to have a really great discussion on a subject, when 2 people are on opposite sides of the fence. Forces me to think in a way I wouldn't do normally. Friction is a great motivator. Ever play when you are mad? I have and I feel like I'm killin it because I have stuff right on the surface I can let out.

I appreciate the kind words Mike. I don't think it's right for me to say I create art. I will concede that I'd like to think I do some things artfully, but to me that's a big difference than being an artist. But I appreciate the kind words. Really feel free to disagree with me all you want. I like a 5 string bass ha ha. That low B (I think it's a B open) is really in the basement.

This one guy at a jam had an 8 string bass. 8 strings! OK that's insane! A guitar only has 6! This guy was so far over the top. Yea not in a good way either. There was nothing I could do but try and hold it together. Good times.

I've always thought it's what other people, specifically other non-drummer musicians... think of a person's playing that really counts. Like I could sit here and call myself an artist all day, which is a bit presumptuous in my mind to say the least, but to me... that has no value or truth to it at all unless someone else thinks I'm an artist, which I silently still wouldn't agree with, but you know what? I'll accept the compliment. If that's what a person feels then who am I to say it's valid or not? It's all subjective anyway. So it's good manners to agree with the person complimenting them. I've seen my bandleader get compliments and he kind of stomps on the persons enthusiasm by contradicting them. Not the best way to handle what could be a pleasant exchange.

I have my ideas and you don't see it that way sometimes and that's great. Keeps it real. Opens my eyes.
 
Next time this happens I'm going to make a bingo board of bad discussion points. "Inapt comparison to multi-stringed instruments", "Mention of 'overcompensation'", "Casual sexism", "Any attempt to place objective value on a particular setup", etc.
 
Hey Guys,

So I used to play a six piece drum kit with a lotta cymbals and so on and play pretty well or at least so I thought. But recently, just because I liked the positioning of where the ride lies, I switched my kit to a 4 piece. Anyways, since doing so I feel like my creativity level and groove has greatly improved. I thought this was rather weird. I mean, I'm not complaining cuz my ideas are better, but why is this and have others had similar experiences with shrinking down your kits? It makes me wonder how guys like Peart, Bozio, Mangini, and other big drum-set players would play if they cut down their kits.

Just thought this would be an interesting discussion if it doesn't already exist.

—Dan
Yeah, the more limits in place, the more creative you are forced to become. My drum teacher drilled this into my head.

So many drummers I see, work on independence and stick control, and all of those fine things. They play okay, but they don't really understand how to maximize their creativity on the instrument. They'll play the ride cymbal in one spot. They'll only hit the center of the snare. In that case, drumming is more of an exercise, rather than art. Decent players, with little to no nuance. Each instrument has an infinite number of sounds, feels, dynamic levls that can be drawn from it. Some people rely on the crutch of adding instruments, instead of working with what is available.

Lately I've been going snare/bass/hat/ride only, at times.
 
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It's the Drumming Bell curve. Every drummer starts with a smaller kit and few cymbals and then build or buy new larger kits with more cymbals and junk (bigger has got to be better), and then finally you peak (realize bigger isn't better or get tired dragging all that crap around) and move towards the smaller kits.

haha - that sounds familiar :)

First a four piece second hand set
then a five piece second hand set
then I put them together to make a large Frankenstein
then I went back to five piece, which fit in our guitarist's car
then bought a new five piece
then added rotos
then took rotos away
then had a car crash and broke mounted tom stand. Back to four piece.
then a new four piece
then a better one
added an extra tom for a while
back to four piece.
 
Creativity lives in your head not the number of pieces that make up your kit. Once you think of what to play you need to have the technique to play what you're mind has created.
That's my .02 anyway.
 
Creativity lives in your head not the number of pieces that make up your kit. Once you think of what to play you need to have the technique to play what you're mind has created.
That's my .02 anyway.

We're talking about spurring your head into being more creative through the use of limitation and smaller points of focus. I don't really see what you're getting at unless you're trying to imply that the medium is never a part of the creative potential.

And anyway, there's already enough things living in my head.
 
Pretty simple. More drums or cymbals or what have only gives more sounds. What's creative about about playing something like single strokes from the highest to the lowest tom on a large kit verus a small kit. Nothing. It's been done over and over. It's how you use what you have. The idea forms in your head. Then you have to be able actually play what your idea.
 
We're talking about spurring your head into being more creative through the use of limitation and smaller points of focus. I don't really see what you're getting at unless you're trying to imply that the medium is never a part of the creative potential.

And anyway, there's already enough things living in my head.

I don't think the medium is part of creative potential since it's just that, potential. You have a limited mental capacity to be creative, it doesn't change magically with your number of drums or the application.

Yes playing on less things seems more creative because you have less to play on, but in reality you're just putting a magnifying glass on your focus.

When I'm playing on my huge kit I don't hold back any creativity and I feel restrained on a smaller kit. I feel like I can't fully express what I want to add into the music, it feels like I have spots that are missing or a hole in my "voice".
 
I feel restrained on a smaller kit. I feel like I can't fully express what I want to add into the music, it feels like I have a hole in my "voice".

this is the whole point right here

if your creativity is fertile you should be able to express yourself completely on a cardboard box with a pair of brushes

the fewer the voices in front of you the more creative you are forced to be ... it truly is a beautiful thing when you can fully unleash your creativity on very few surfaces and feel like absolutely nothing is missing
 
I normally play on a four-piece. I add a floor tom and suddenly I'm "unrestrained" ;) People that play few drums, really, should play fewer cymbals. Get yourself a good crash ride and hats and then tell me you're playing a small kit!
 
this is the whole point right here

if your creativity is fertile you should be able to express yourself completely on a cardboard box with a pair of brushes

the fewer the voices in front of you the more creative you are forced to be ... it truly is a beautiful thing when you can fully unleash your creativity on very few surfaces and feel like absolutely nothing is missing

Beautifully put, as usual.

I remember the first time I ditched my high tom for a paid gig. I got some very questioning glances from the guitar player who felt something might sound lacking... But in the end, it was amazing. Compliments all around for the fresh new approach to the same spaces that existed in the music before. It's just that the limitation changed the way I was thinking about approaching the same spaces, I had no option to do the things I did before. I was forced into being creative with those spaces and the base rhythms.

I had a similar thing happen when I was young and discovered that limiting my photography to black and white really spurred my head to think in a different space. The colors were not an option for the image, instead, I was thinking more about the base of the image. The composition and lines, the way the tones would translate, the overall base contrast of objects and their relations to one another. I became obsessed with using the limitation, at one point even challenging myself to get a sunset shot that inspired with no color.

Anyway, I suspect that the aforementioned "hole in my voice" is more likely a hole in creative thought, and if the poster of that comment really thought about it, there are dozens of easily available options to fill that hole with less voices available.
 
I had a similar thing happen when I was young and discovered that limiting my photography to black and white really spurred my head to think in a different space. The colors were not an option for the image, instead, I was thinking more about the base of the image. The composition and lines, the way the tones would translate, the overall base contrast of objects and their relations to one another. I became obsessed with using the limitation, at one point even challenging myself to get a sunset shot that inspired with no color.

Anyway, I suspect that the aforementioned "hole in my voice" is more likely a hole in creative thought, and if the poster of that comment really thought about it, there are dozens of easily available options to fill that hole with less voices available.

This is beautifully put as well. Your photography analogy really sheds light on the process. It's a great parallel.
 
Beautifully put, as usual.

I remember the first time I ditched my high tom for a paid gig. I got some very questioning glances from the guitar player who felt something might sound lacking... But in the end, it was amazing. Compliments all around for the fresh new approach to the same spaces that existed in the music before. It's just that the limitation changed the way I was thinking about approaching the same spaces, I had no option to do the things I did before. I was forced into being creative with those spaces and the base rhythms.

I had a similar thing happen when I was young and discovered that limiting my photography to black and white really spurred my head to think in a different space. The colors were not an option for the image, instead, I was thinking more about the base of the image. The composition and lines, the way the tones would translate, the overall base contrast of objects and their relations to one another. I became obsessed with using the limitation, at one point even challenging myself to get a sunset shot that inspired with no color.

Anyway, I suspect that the aforementioned "hole in my voice" is more likely a hole in creative thought, and if the poster of that comment really thought about it, there are dozens of easily available options to fill that hole with less voices available.

This is probably off topic Watso, but were you aware Leica has produced a digital M camera that only shoots in b&w? They even charge MORE for it. Apparently, you're not alone in the b&w aesthetic! Well said ;)
 
it truly is a beautiful thing when you can fully unleash your creativity on very few surfaces and feel like absolutely nothing is missing
I completely agree with this, & I like Watso's B&W image analogy too - all true, but the "less is automatically better" or "the drummer who uses more voices is automatically less creative" vibe I feel in these discussions time & time again is bothersome to me. More than that, it doesn't relate verbatim to the real playing landscape out there.

Let's take a closely associated instrument - bass guitar. Do I pick up less by way of creativity from contrabass players such as Anthony Jackson? Perhaps 5 string players are really just covering up their own inadequacies? Maybe the most creative bass player uses an instrument with 1 string. Of course, non of this is true. Bass players, just like drummers, make appropriate choices of instrument based on the gig at hand and how they wish to be represented within the music. By making such choices, it doesn't automatically mean they're less creative.

Although it's true that restricting choices forces creativity, exercising voices choice, is in itself, a creative move. It's how it's presented within the music that matters, not the mechanism employed to do so. There's an air of snobbery surrounding this subject (intentional or otherwise) that I find deeply unattractive.
 
There's an air of snobbery surrounding this subject (intentional or otherwise) that I find deeply unattractive.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who spotted this. I'm 100% certain it's unintentional. All the same, it's still disturbing.

I love your analogy about the bass, because it fits my life. Seriously!

On Thursday evenings I can be found playing my kit, usually in 4-piece configuration, at the local open mic night. I have yet to encounter a tune I can't get through with four drums, hats, ride, and two crashes.

Friday evenings will find me jamming totally acoustic with a bunch of Jimmy Buffett wannabees. I don't play guitar at all well, so I made a washtub bass. A stick + a piece of nylon carpenter's twine + a 6-gallon bucket that used to hold pool chemicals = bass. I was going to get an acoustic bass guitar, but I'm perpetually broke. ;)

According to the "less is more principle," I should be the most creative cat at this jam. I can tell you unequivocally and without question that I am most certainly not. Someone calls off a tune, "Yeah, it's 1-4-5 in G," and I have to tune myself in. Then, once I get the basic pattern tuned in, there's basically nothing I can do to modify it, creatively, because the instrument is simply insufficient. It's not just ill-suited, it's insufficient. I have no frets, no scale pattern muscle memory to fall back on, hell, the thing has a different fundamental note depending on how tightly I tie the string to the top of the stick, and how much tension I put on it by pulling back on the stick. So while I'm no more Leland Sklar than I am Bill Bruford, I can attest that less is by no means a guarantee of greater creativity. It can just as easily be a guarantee of immense frustration.
 
Yes I have seen the same thing happen to me. I get a little more creative on the smaller kit. I haven't yet decided to go full time on it yet though. I'm pretty much known for the big kit. The only time I get down to the smaller kit is if I'm doing a jazz gig. But in my current rock gig, I use my big kit. I have a ton of fun on the smaller kit. It's sometimes better to just scale back and just groove on the smaller kit at times. But yes the creativity level usually goes a notch up when I'm on the smaller kit....
 
Every so often a big-kit drummer posts how they tried playing on a smaller kit and felt more creative while doing it. The general consensus is that the size of the kit caused the creativity. I think that misses a more general observation. This drummer is playing on a substantially different kit than what he or she is used to. Give the guy with fly swatters and a cardboard box a four piece, and he'll feel the same way.

You can dig yourself into a creativity rut just as easily on a small kit as with a big kit. The same drummer playing the same drums and cymbals is probably going to play the same things. Real creativity requires more effort than just getting rid of a few extra pieces. It comes from listening to different music. Try to copy different things you hear. Play different styles of music. Play a different instrument. Learn to dance. Work on rudiments. In essence, creativity comes best just outside your comfort zone. Stray too far, and you'll be too intimidated to develop good ideas. Stay too close, and you won't see the need. The big kit drummer trying a small kit is just outside the comfort zone.
 
So while I'm no more Leland Sklar than I am Bill Bruford, I can attest that less is by no means a guarantee of greater creativity. It can just as easily be a guarantee of immense frustration.

Agree Bob.

At the same time, big kits don't have to be configured to encourage drummers to go boogidy boogidy down the drums. Speaking of Bill Bruford, he liked to set up his toms in more melodic ways than a straight descending line.

What can inspire creativity is the transition from large kit to small kit - or vice versa - rather than the size of the kit itself. Yes, you have to learn to extract different sounds on a small kit. On the other hand, you have to get used to getting around a big kit, which can be intimidating when you're used to a smaller instrument.
 
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