The Big Kits vs. Small Kits Debate

Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

i think the solution to your problem is to charge by the hour for your studio time. then you'll be begging drummers with big kits to record with you.

i went to a studio that charged by the hour a couple years ago with a 6 piece kit and they were more than happy to spend several hours setting up a billion mics on everything and carefully sound check every one of them. it was expensive for us, but they didn't seem to mind at all. i'm sure that they LOVE monster kits and all the trouble it takes to get them set up for recording. for them it's more money in their pocket.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Most people play on mid-sized kits of 5 to 8 pieces. It's the extremes that argue with each other about this. Most of us just play what we have.

I think the obsession with double pedals is bizarre. 16th notes on the bass drums have very little use in most genres and irritates other musicians, and takes many hours of practice to learn to play well. Yet double bass drumming is the single most-talked about subject across the board (well, that and John Bonham). Why spend so much time learning something that has little use and not many other musicians appreciate?
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

A lot of it is just showmanship IMO. Monster kits are amazing looking things.

Still reckon there's an element of red sports car about them, though :)


Deathmetalconga said:
16th notes on the bass drums have very little use in most genres and irritates other musicians, and takes many hours of practice to learn to play well. Yet double bass drumming is the single most-talked about subject across the board (well, that and John Bonham). Why spend so much time learning something that has little use and not many other musicians appreciate?

DMC, the double pedal rumble is to modern metal drumming what spang-a-lang is to bop. Those devices are so ubiquitous in those styles that they're almost genre-defining. Neither approach is used much in other genres. Some people just like to specialise.

BTW, I think Buddy would be mentioned more on the board than Bonzo :)
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

seem to you, yes, but as you mentioned in the first post
"so i know i can be really argumentative at times but i just have to say"

the "seems" to you my very well be less sensitive-to/aware-of of that aspect

i didn't mention any names did i? not personal.


that would be merely personal IDENTIFICATION,
what you did do is assign personal attributes and use personal pronouns and spoke of specific persons -- attaching that to a more general concept





that you aren't directly addressing the persons you are criticizing , but are talking to third parties doesn't make the criticism non-personal (in fact right here, we have again a specific calling out of personages) as you say - you were using specific examples, of an individual person
the criticism is personal, the declaration is public

what ever dude. then its personal, i don't care.

i think the solution to your problem is to charge by the hour for your studio time. then you'll be begging drummers with big kits to record with you.

i went to a studio that charged by the hour a couple years ago with a 6 piece kit and they were more than happy to spend several hours setting up a billion mics on everything and carefully sound check every one of them. it was expensive for us, but they didn't seem to mind at all. i'm sure that they LOVE monster kits and all the trouble it takes to get them set up for recording. for them it's more money in their pocket.

i know we should charge by the hour, we might not get as much tho, its just a finished basement with mics racks and a large mixer, and a closet for vocals, i am seriously considering it because the finished product is good. what do you think? 20 an hour? we charge 60 a day right now and the bands with alot of equipment usually do a 3 to 5, 8 hour days because of set up mic prep, and all the fidgeting they do with there stuff,
small bands that have a small kit and use the in house amps get done in about a day and a half.

Most people play on mid-sized kits of 5 to 8 pieces. It's the extremes that argue with each other about this. Most of us just play what we have.

I think the obsession with double pedals is bizarre. 16th notes on the bass drums have very little use in most genres and irritates other musicians, and takes many hours of practice to learn to play well. Yet double bass drumming is the single most-talked about subject across the board (well, that and John Bonham). Why spend so much time learning something that has little use and not many other musicians appreciate?
i agree, you don't want to get me started on double bass, alot of kids buy a drum set because they want to play double bass, the see how fast they can run on the bass pedal, do not practice hand technique or learn a variety of grooves and end up quitting a short time after, i see this all the time, "hardcore" bands come in and record a demo before they have even played a show and its just 16th note double bass from the drums. they end up not "kicking off" as fast as they thought they would an soon loose interest.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

I'd love to have a big double-bass drum kit with lots of toms and cymbals. I'd have a blast pretending that I'm Keith Moon! Who tribute band here I come!

It's all fun, you know.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

I'd love to have a big double-bass drum kit with lots of toms and cymbals. I'd have a blast pretending that I'm Keith Moon! Who tribute band here I come!

It's all fun, you know.

LOL I'm hearing you, Jay Moon! In the early days I put my two crappy kits together to make a monster crappy kit. Much fun but the reality of lugging and actually being able to use a large kit in a sensible way meant that that arrangement never made it out of my music room.

These days I get confused between just hats, snare and a kick. If I had a giant double pedal kit my brain would explode :)
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

There was a time when I played a ten piece kit. I did this for many years during the seventies. I was good at it, I played both Hard Rock, and Southern Rock, and everything in between.
I now play a four and a five piece kit, Depending on the venue!
I also always use a conga player, along with other hand drum players from time to time. I even use two four or five piece kit players with the conga player and other hand drum players.

I can play better with a full percussion section than I ever could when I played my ten piece!
I can sit back, provide groove, while the other percussionist provide the color. I can stand out when I want to, and then lay back and let the other percussionist take over and have their moments of glory.
I have learned this over the many years of playing, I can't do it all! I need help to make it work properly.
I am now most comfortable with a classic jazz style four piece kit, And a full percussion ensemble to complete a full rhythm section.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

did keith moon play doubles bass? i dont think he did but im not sure. not a huge who fan.
Yeah he did. You hear it a lot in their live performances (Live at Leeds for example). He never used a hi-hat live, so his left foot was always on his second bass pedal :)
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

I currently play a 3-piece kit. I like it that way. From a playing standpoint, however many pieces other drummers use doesn't concern me in the least. I think the only time I feel bad when some young kid without a lot of money spends everything he has on a flashy new monster kit of questionable quality when he could do much better with a good quality, second-hand 5-piece.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

I'd love to have a big double-bass drum kit with lots of toms and cymbals. I'd have a blast pretending that I'm Keith Moon! Who tribute band here I come!

It's all fun, you know.

ROFL.....thx J it's Friday and I needed that laugh....
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

the people who can't play them well .. sound just as bad on a 4 piece.

I agree .. sweep fills get boring ..

I think of it this way .. .... by your logic .. a guitar player only needs 4 strings .. the extra 2 .. they hinder creativity right? hell .. he can get a decent amount of notes with just 1 string ... more than one string eliminates creativity .. they might play some scales (sweep fill)


it's not the equipment you use but how you use it .. if you play blast blast sweep fill .. yes .. its lame .. but many people play a fill of snare, rack tom, floor tom on a 4 piece.

a bigger drum set brings more possibilities if you know how to use it . if you try to play melodically or use certain higher toms tuned higher as accents. I play a 6 piece and would love to make it a 7 or 8 piece (single bass drum) because of the possibilities.
and it really does depend on what your playing. if you use the toms melodically .. you could play jazz on a 10 piece .. you can play metal on a 3 piece.

what bothers me most is people watching mtv and deciding they need a 4 piece "custom" drum set in an artist's nightmare color scheme with a 22x22 bass drum and playing with the technique of a very p.o'd gorilla.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

i know we should charge by the hour, we might not get as much tho, its just a finished basement with mics racks and a large mixer, and a closet for vocals, i am seriously considering it because the finished product is good. what do you think? 20 an hour? we charge 60 a day right now and the bands with alot of equipment usually do a 3 to 5, 8 hour days because of set up mic prep, and all the fidgeting they do with there stuff,
small bands that have a small kit and use the in house amps get done in about a day and a half.


$20 an hour is a reasonable rate. that's exactly what we were charged in that studio i was telling you about. it was a nice studio with a big wood floored room for me and my kit and separate rooms for other musicians. i considered that a good deal because some other places were charging $40 to $50 an hour. we got a break because we booked a large block of time. we ended up going over that of course, mostly because of all the fussing with drums and other nit picking by the singer/songwriter.

other places i've been to charge a flat rate per song, which is usually cheaper, but i don't like it because they always rush you through everything and try to get you out of there as quickly as possible.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Oh no not this again!

I love my big kit and having all those drums and cymbals around me. I tried playing smaller kits and it just felt weird having all that space were drums and cymbals should be. Although now that I'm playing more jazz now I might have do get use to a smaller kit but I will still use two bass drums.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

terry-bozzio-drum-kit_69.jpg
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Chillax!

I was just standing up for meself. Nothing personal taken, no offence.

lol

dude? i was not being serious haha i was being sarcastic, i guess a failed attempt at sarcasm, some forms of humor are hard taken over text. this forum needs a sarcasm or just playing around button. but anyway all i was saying was no your in the clear i was not referring to your playing, just some people i record and big drum sets. trust me of all people do not want to get personal, i learned early on that debating on the forum doesn't lead anywhere.


haha when this shows up i retire the mics! wow im guessing that is in a music store? do you really think all of those pedals are attached to something percussive? i have a heard time believing they are!
 
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