I can answer your question from my experience only. Ride cymbal stays on the right, hats stay on the left.Another question for those playing open (without remote hats).
Do you place the ride on the left side as well? That would seem to eliminate learning everything twice - with both left and right hand lead.
Jeff
Another question for those playing open (without remote hats).
Do you place the ride on the left side as well? That would seem to eliminate learning everything twice - with both left and right hand lead.
Jeff
I can answer your question from my experience only. Ride cymbal stays on the right, hats stay on the left.
Now let me ask you a question:
Seems to me all you seriously learned guys, after spending countless hours working through all the books and mastering every permutation of every rudiment, should be able to make any leading-left transition seamlessly and without even thinking about it. It should already be second nature, right? I mean, this is basic rudiments 101, isn't it?
I honestly don't mean that in any flippant or sarcastic way at all. I'm actually very curious.
But since this does seem to be so controversial among so many who are so learned, I have to assume that one of your limbs is more equal that the other(!).
I don't necessarily mean just you, Jeff, but all the high level players contributing to this thread.
Look, I'm not a learned guy in any formal sense, and even I haven't found it terribly difficult to make riding with my left work to my advantage.
Is it the same as riding with my right? Of course it isn't. Should it be exactly the same? Maybe that's the real question here, but to be honest, I don't think I want get it totally equalized because I actually like that it's different.
I think it's a mental thing more than anything else. There's nothing to be undone or unlearned, or even learned twice. It's just another skill in the set.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: I'm not suggesting that anyone should (or shouldn't) get on board with this idea and make it a full-time thing, and I only use it very occasionally where it works. I just can't see the point of ruling it out completely based on some traditional principal.
Drums as drumkits, and the techniques to play them, are still relatively new and evolving in the world of musical instruments, so I'm not getting the traditional and sacred calligraphy monk parallel at all.
I would imagine that it would take close to twice the amount of time to master those patterns with left and right hand lead.
My experience does not support this assertion. I don't think the human brain is wired quite that way.
It does feel different, though. That's a critical element that I think dovetails well with a more 'composed' or mechanical approach to playing- I still play jazz (and enjoy occasional jamming) with a traditional 4-piece because I have a wealth of groove experience with a typical limb assignment that just isn't as present when my limbs are out of their 'comfort zone'. It absolutely feels different and I think they're two tools for two different purposes, much like matched v. traditional grip (which I don't play, full disclosure).
Mike, I agree.
Problem here is that you're talking shoulds and shouldn'ts when it's more a matter of what is. The feel is different when I switch up. Also, I never said I was leading with my left; I'm riding with my left, and even though it's taken control of the pulse by virtue of its role, I'm not convinced that that makes it left hand lead, since I still lead with my right when playing fills, but I think we're getting into semantics with that at some point.
Lastly, I don't know who the "we" is in your last sentence. Would that be you?
I do, I take advantage of my ambidextrous, one ride on the left for jazz, a ride on the right for blast beats. I have two of most types of cymbals, each being different from the other. But you don't have to, I've see. Ambidextrous players take advantage of stickings on a right handed kit(Anup Sastry). Goes to show that ambidextrous doesn't have to change your set, but will expand your playing.Another question for those playing open (without remote hats).
Do you place the ride on the left side as well? That would seem to eliminate learning everything twice - with both left and right hand lead.
Jeff
Another question for those playing open (without remote hats).
Do you place the ride on the left side as well? That would seem to eliminate learning everything twice - with both left and right hand lead.
Seems to me all you seriously learned guys, after spending countless hours working through all the books and mastering every permutation of every rudiment, should be able to make any leading-left transition seamlessly and without even thinking about it. It should already be second nature, right? I mean, this is basic rudiments 101, isn't it?
But since this does seem to be so controversial among so many who are so learned, I have to assume that one of your limbs is more equal that the other(!).
Look, I'm not a learned guy in any formal sense, and even I haven't found it terribly difficult to make riding with my left work to my advantage.
Is it the same as riding with my right? Of course it isn't. Should it be exactly the same? Maybe that's the real question here, but to be honest, I don't think I want get it totally equalized because I actually like that it's different.
I think it's a mental thing more than anything else. There's nothing to be undone or unlearned, or even learned twice. It's just another skill in the set.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: I'm not suggesting that anyone should (or shouldn't) get on board with this idea and make it a full-time thing, and I only use it very occasionally where it works. I just can't see the point of ruling it out completely based on some traditional principal.
Drums as drumkits, and the techniques to play them, are still relatively new and evolving in the world of musical instruments, so I'm not getting the traditional and sacred calligraphy monk parallel at all.
The point is you force your left hand (and foot for this matter) to take full lead through practice. After you practice your left hand will be comfortable and it will feel natural. Not shouldn't, it will, and if it doesn't it means you haven't practiced enough.
It only took me a few months but ok, and it won't take away anything it will make you more comfortible if anything.Ah, yes, let me go practice for another four years to remove a feeling I actually like with my playing. Wink?
No, open handed refers to playing the hi hat with your non dominant hand. So playing the hi hat with your dominant hand, whether the HH is on your left or right, it's concidered normal.I "technically" play open handed...that is, I'm right handed but play with my hi-hat over on the right hand side of the kit.
You can watch a video of my playing here...WARNING: May cause severe vomiting!!
"Little Monster" - Royal Blood
Rob
Oc course, freedom is always the way to go. I'm not trying to force it on anyone or say that it's better. Just saying it opens up a lot of opportunities and it works better for a lot of drummers.I say - who cares which approach you take.
Figure out what works best for you and do it. Open handed / cross handed / both or something different and new.
No, open handed refers to playing the hi hat with your non dominant hand. So playing the hi hat with your dominant hand, whether the HH is on your left or right, it's concidered normal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-handed_drumming
I'm not saying wiki is a reliable resource at all, but generally thats what everyone is referring to.
Playing with your hands "open" (as in not "crossed") is now not really "open" because even though your hands are "open" you're leading from the right so we can technically consider them "crossed"?
Is this actually a serious debate? Or are we just happy to make it up as we go along these days?
There's open......and there's crossed, surely? Or are we now changing perfectly acceptable definitions provided for by the English language for hundreds of years just to prove our point on drum forums?
I wasn't really trying to make it a debate, buuuut if you wanna push your luck and get roasted that's fine.
Yeah it does matter, theres no point in having these terms if they're not specifically defined or being used correctly. No one calls normal playing open handed. I don't go up to someone who's playing right handed on the right side of their kit because they're right handed and say "that's open handed playing". Why? Because what they're doing is the standard way to play the instrument. You would say "that's normal" because THAT'S NORMAL. I'm not even going to say it's the social norm either, because it's literally just the way you play the instrument naturally. Nothing different, specific or extraordinary about it. If that person who was just playing is now suddenly riding the hi hat with their left, that's very different and unusual from what was just happening. You now say "oh your playing open handed, interesting" And that's why as a term, is specifically referred to playing with your left hand when your right hand dominant. Does it reeeaaally mean HH only? Yeah it does, because it originated when instead of crossing your hands, you play the hi hat OPEN with your left hand to AVOID CROSSING your hands. Now this, this is a social norm, everyone here knows when you see a drummer who was just freaking playing right handed, who now switched to left hand, JUST for the high hat, is referred to as open handed playing. Or vice versa. If they start crashing and doing leads with both their hands then clearly they're ambidextrous, or are playing ambidextrously (or whatever).
And really I meant to tell him I liked his enthusiastic playing, but I forgot, wasn't trying to argue over something that's already been established. No I'm not making anything up, use the internet since your on it and do some research. I'm simply going off what has already been established in the past.
A door is still open regardless of whether it's pushed or pulled. It is open simply because it is no longer closed. The hands are still open regardless of whether the right or left hand is leading. They are open simply because they are no longer crossed. If you wanna ignore commonly accepted terminology and cite "the internet" in order to perpetuate a half truth, knock yourself out. But if something........especially something that is cited on "the internet" that I frequent, flies in the face of all common sense and sound judgement, then you bet I'm gonna call it to question. To highlight the obvious lack of reason presented in the argument........whether someone's gonna make an attempt to "roast" me for it or not.
Well we're not talking about doors are we? We don't refer normal playing to open, yes even if your hands are open, it's not considered because like I already said normal is normal. Even if your hands are literally open, you only refer open handed playing when it's your non dominant. Sorry bud but no one says open handed playing when someones playing normal. And lack of reason? I'm thinking you mean backing up with facts, which you are not, so I don't see your point? I listed a whole paragraph with examples and reasons/facts of why we call open handed playing something specific. aaannd you replied with doors being open and being shut....don't worry I get the metaphor. If you're hands aren't crossed...well then they have to be opened? Yes literally, but that's not how we use the term. Why? Because your hands NOT being crossed is EXTREMELY common. But when you do it with your left hand, well that's different, uncommon and has been named so we can all identify it. It's call open handed bud, simple. Why do you think this thread is called "open handed technique" because were all referring to something specific. Why do you think we've been discussing our left hands, ambidextrous and the pros and cons? Were obviously NOT referring to playing the set normally with our right hands are we? Nope were referring to playing open handed, left on the HH, respectively.