Help! Can't keep time without a metronome

Jarobi

Member
Hi! I've been playing drums for 13 years now and for the last 3 years my timekeeping has really taken a turn for the worse.
I can stay in the pocket for maybe 2 or 3 bars before the tempo is either rushing or dragging. It dosen't matter if i'm playing by myself, on rehearsals or on stage. The only thing spinning around in my head when I start a groove is if the tempo fluctuates or not. It's like a mental state that can't stop analyzing.

This led me to stop playing fills completely and I began practicing with a click track that goes silent for several bars( 8 bars with click and 8 without for example) but it seems to have made it even more detrimental to my inner clock.
Prior to that i've always been practicing with a metronome and for the last year I even bring it up on stage.
I can't help feeling like a impotent drummer when I'm dependent on a machine to keep time for me.

Any tips on how I can break this pocket blocking curse? Feel free to correct my terrible grammar btw I hope it's understandable enough.
 
Jarobi, I'm 61 and still sometimes struggle with time. I tend to push a bit. I am lucky ( or unlucky) enough to work with a Berklee Professor who plays bass. He does not budge on tempo and if I start to push he will wave the neck of his bass. It's my que that I am starting to push a bit. At first this made me uncomfortable and kind of annoyed me because my body clock was programmed that way for years and it never really bothered anyone? Go figure.

Now I layback a bit more and try and lock in with what the bass is doing and it's helped me. I relax, try not to get too excited. Now when I listen back to a live performance that we recorded I can hear some nice groove happening. Nothing fancy just nice.

Play along with some music, don't try and mimic the drummer just groove along and lock in with the bass player.

I wish you luck.
 
I think this happens to a lot of us. I've been playing for over fifty years, and five or six years ago the same thing you are talking about happened to me. I don't have any idea what caused it, but all of a sudden I had a terrible time maintaining a steady clock. The more I obsessed with it, the worse it got. After several months of struggling with the problem, I simply gave up. That's when the problem disappeared. I think when we encounter such problems, some of us tend to obsess to the point that we blow it way out of proportion. My advice, use the metronome to count off the songs, then turn it off. Take the attitude that if you speed up or slow down, so what. As long as your meandering time doesn't bother your bandmates (and apparently it does not), then don't let it bother you, either. Soon, that internal clock will take over again and you'll be back in the pocket. I've been there (and so have many, many others), and you will soon count the experience as one of the events that shape you as the drummer you are.

GeeDeeEmm
 
How's your breathing? Are you relaxed and confident doing anything else?
 
How's your breathing? Are you relaxed and confident doing anything else?

Bo makes a good point.

I don't know if strict adherence to metronomes or click tracks etc... is really that good for the overall sound of the music as by nature - music breaths... listen to some Be-Bop or Straight ahead jazz. Check out some Charlie Parker with Max Roach or Haynes on the traps. They are breathing, they are definitely NOT strict time keeping machines.

That said, there is a lot of Rock that is metronomic, stiff, driving, robotic, and to me that's okay but any 'ol rhythm box can do that.

I guess the first question I would have to the OP is; Are you a time keeper or a percussionist? The reason I ask is that there are groups I have been associated with in which everyone has an internal clock and we just meshed, and it was good.

My 2nd question would be... are you and the bassist locked in? The bassist is a very large component in the overall timing.

My 3rd and last question is... are you playing to busily or are you stripped down to the essentials of time? I think there is a point when too much complexity can effect not only your internal time but also can clutter the time and infer a drag on the time.
 
Here is my recent go to response for people who have problems with a steady pulse. Even players who don't seem to have a problem with timing should get something out of it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CMMtkf8UpnQ

He forgot to add the 3 that made the most impact for me:

Click on the last 16th of every beat ("a")

Click on the 2nd 16th of every best ("e") hard

Click on the 2nd part of the triplet ("tri"). Very hard.

They make a huge difference in the tightened of the grove.
 
Sorry to be so dense but as a cynical, sarcastic, iconoclastic, SOB I don't get why you smell a rat here? The guy is asking for help, yes?
 
I know a really great exercise. You find a brick wall - preferably one of those that's slightly older so that some of the mortar has come out and you're left with the edges of the bricks. Then what you do is take your metronome and start it off slow, say 60 BPM. Now you bash your head against the wall as hard as possible in time with the metronome for a minute. Turn the metronome up each minute to something slightly faster, finishing at around 120 BPM.

Now record yourself doing this and try again without the metronome. Remember to bash your head as hard as you can, this is really important because you're resetting your internal clock.
 
I know a really great exercise. You find a brick wall - preferably one of those that's slightly older so that some of the mortar has come out and you're left with the edges of the bricks. Then what you do is take your metronome and start it off slow, say 60 BPM. Now you bash your head against the wall as hard as possible in time with the metronome for a minute. Turn the metronome up each minute to something slightly faster, finishing at around 120 BPM.

Now record yourself doing this and try again without the metronome. Remember to bash your head as hard as you can, this is really important because you're resetting your internal clock.


LIKE.................


.
 
The guy is asking for help, yes?

He's certainly creating that appearance, yes.

But due to also being a long term cynical, sarcastic and iconoclastic SOB, I have my doubts as to his sincerity.


Of course, if I have to apologise profusely for a gross misjudgment of character after the fact, then I'm more than happy to do so. But, something tells me I just won't have to.
 
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Thanks for the advice. You definitely know what it's about.
It's simply an obsession of over thinking that I should let go of as gdmoore suggested. The "so what-approach" seems therefore liberating.

I've been really into hiphop/"loop drumming" and plagiarizing breakbeats during this 3 year period so I guess that has an overall effect, in trying to mimic stuff too much. I also tend to approach the music more as a timekeeper nowadays than before. Maybe the problem lies there? I played alot of jazz before and the timing was never a big issue back then due to all the spontaneity and continous interaction that kept the mind fresh .
In my current hiphop band it's all about loop re-creation. So after a few bars of the same groove the intensity is gone and the feeling gets dull. It's the opposite of overplaying that causes the loss of momentum. By keeping things too "simple" and monotonous the feeling gets suppressed in my case but it seems like a necessity if you wanna become a good drummer. Maybe i'm rambling...
 
Thanks for the advice. You definitely know what it's about.
It's simply an obsession of over thinking that I should let go of as gdmoore suggested. The "so what-approach" seems therefore liberating.

I've been really into hiphop/"loop drumming" and plagiarizing breakbeats during this 3 year period so I guess that has an overall effect, in trying to mimic stuff too much. I also tend to approach the music more as a timekeeper nowadays than before. Maybe the problem lies there? I played alot of jazz before and the timing was never a big issue back then due to all the spontaneity and continous interaction that kept the mind fresh .
In my current hiphop band it's all about loop re-creation. So after a few bars of the same groove the intensity is gone and the feeling gets dull. It's the opposite of overplaying that causes the loss of momentum. By keeping things too "simple" and monotonous the feeling gets suppressed in my case but it seems like a necessity if you wanna become a good drummer. Maybe i'm rambling...

Don't worry about those who haven't taken your problem seriously. Like all sites, this one gets some one-post wonders who want to . . . . well, whatever they want to do. Who knows. But, I think you may have recognized the origin of this problem - loop re-creation. That action alone is enough to suck the creativity and confidence right out of you. Are you required to stick strictly to the loop? Can you embellish the basic track? Even a few deviations from the loop monotony will give you the chance to reset periodically and once again focus on nailing down the groove of the loop. Or, at least instilling some groove that was missing from the beginning.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Everyone brought up some good points, so I'll just add one more.

Have you thought about listening to the melody? I know we're usually more tied to the bass, but listening to the melody might give you a better ifdea of where the tempo should be. Especially if you're playing hip-hop, you should be able to tell when the vocals are comfortable, or when they are being rushed...
 
He forgot to add the 3 that made the most impact for me:

Click on the last 16th of every beat ("a")

Click on the 2nd 16th of every best ("e") hard

Click on the 2nd part of the triplet ("tri"). Very hard.

They make a huge difference in the tightened of the grove.

True- he's just scratching the surface with possibilities. But the OP appears to have a fundamental problem with timing and in this case, there's plenty on this video to help out. And someone with fundamental problems is going to be served better developing as deep a groove as possible with a simple variation. Of course once they play it with depth and confidence they can move on to placing the click on finer subdivisions. But if they just play a variation until they 'get it' and then move on to harder and harder stuff, it'll be like building a house of cards.
 
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