Trad grip players -- Hand position with traditional grip

brady

Platinum Member
A different twist on the trad vs matched question...

In relation to a clock position on the snare, where are your hands?

I switched to traditional grip a few months back but abandoned it after some thumb tendonitis issues. I've revisited it this week, but keeping my index finger on top of the stick. So far, it has taken the strain off of my thumb.

At any rate, when using trad, my left hand is at the 9 o'clock position and my right is around 5 o'clock. Do any of you play with that wide of a spread? I can't comfortably bring my left hand closer without feeling like I'm pinching my wrist.

Fortunately, my teacher is reluctant to make me bring my hand closer, especially if it doesn't work for me.

I was just wondering where you have your hands placed...
 
LH is at 7 o'clock

RH is at 4.5 o'clock

I think that where you put your left hand when using traditional depends on your wrist orientation. My palm is facing the drum ie my thimb is facing the sky. I find it easy to keep my hand where it is when I play matched grip. I have a bandmate at school whose palm faces the sky and his hand is at the 9 o'clock position.
 
sounds like a stick position issue......the sticks should look almost exactly the way they do when the beads are placed in the center of the drum with matched grip....

it sounds like your trad is out of wack.....

if you can post a pic I can def help you out
 
~4 and 8, to make a ~90 degree slice of pie, just like with matched. Your elbows should hang naturally at your sides, and your LH wrist should be straight, so there's no break in the line from your forearm through the back of your hand.
 
I myself switched to trad several months back when I re-skinned my kit and setup my snares with a slight tilt facing away from me (so I've only been playing trad for the past few months). I noticed, in particular when I was starting off with it, that my stick kind of sat in my hand in a more perpendicular position (kind of like a t or cross). I ended up using my thumb a lot more to try to control the stick. Within the last few weeks however, I've grown a lot more accustomed to the grip and noticed that the stick is sitting in my hand at more of a 45 degree angle (if that makes sense) and my index finger is helping to control the stick and on good days, actually helping with playing the strokes. I still can't do a steady single stroke just using my index finger though. I've also noticed that the position of my palm when I started was facing upwards, it's now noticeably more turned inward or positioned more vertically. Although when it comes to playing some louder single notes my palm goes back to facing upward towards the ceiling.

I'd say as far as position goes, I'm at around 4 and 8.
 
~4 and 8, to make a ~90 degree slice of pie, just like with matched. Your elbows should hang naturally at your sides, and your LH wrist should be straight, so there's no break in the line from your forearm through the back of your hand.

My arms do hang naturally. When I bring my left hand up to the snare, the stick is pretty much at a 90 degree angle from my arm. I can't comfortably bring my arm closer to my body without severly reducing my range of motion.
 
My arms do hang naturally. When I bring my left hand up to the snare, the stick is pretty much at a 90 degree angle from my arm. I can't comfortably bring my arm closer to my body without severly reducing my range of motion.

Right, the stick should actually be at about 45 degrees from your forearm at most- with me it's more like 30.
 
Right, the stick should actually be at about 45 degrees from your forearm at most- with me it's more like 30.

What do you suggest then? It's quite uncomfortable to bring my arm closer to open up that angle. I really impairs my wrist from turning. With it at the 90 like I default to, it's a simple rotation of the wrist or downward finger motion.

I'll have to look at it on the snare/pad. But I think I'm somewhere between 9 o'clock and 8o' clock. That's about as far back as I can bring it.
 
does watching the big trad guys help you? i've been watching all of them, because they've all accomplished trad grips that work under extreme demands...

also maybe videotape your playing, including when you go into "default position", and study it. and practice in mirror or some type of reflection? that helps me a lot.
 
What do you suggest then? It's quite uncomfortable to bring my arm closer to open up that angle. I really impairs my wrist from turning. With it at the 90 like I default to, it's a simple rotation of the wrist or downward finger motion.

I'll have to look at it on the snare/pad. But I think I'm somewhere between 9 o'clock and 8o' clock. That's about as far back as I can bring it.

It should be very natural, so either we're talking about different things, or I'd take a close look at how you're holding the sticks. If your teacher doesn't know the grip, maybe spring for an extra lesson with somebody else to square it away. Maybe you could post a picture of your hands in playing position?
 
It should be very natural, so either we're talking about different things, or I'd take a close look at how you're holding the sticks. If your teacher doesn't know the grip, maybe spring for an extra lesson with somebody else to square it away. Maybe you could post a picture of your hands in playing position?

My teacher knows the grip well. That's part of why I went to him as a teacher. His hand are a little closer as most of the others have mentioned. As I said in an earlier post, my teacher isn't forcing me to change, just something he (and I) have noticed. It doesn't affect me getting around the kit too much. I was just curious where others had their hands; if my sticks were angled out too far.

Here's a pic to show you what I'm talking about.

If I bring my left hand back towards me, it really impedes my movement.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7401.JPG
    IMG_7401.JPG
    176.2 KB · Views: 1,059
My teacher knows the grip well. That's part of why I went to him as a teacher. His hand are a little closer as most of the others have mentioned. As I said in an earlier post, my teacher isn't forcing me to change, just something he (and I) have noticed. It doesn't affect me getting around the kit too much. I was just curious where others had their hands; if my sticks were angled out too far.

Here's a pic to show you what I'm talking about.

If I bring my left hand back towards me, it really impedes my movement.


that is not good trad technique at all.....you might want to think abot talking to an instructor about it....

unless you have it supremely developed....think about talking to someone about correcting it......you could most likely get a lot more out of it than you currently are in that position.........

the stick should be on much more of an angle off your hand and the stick should lay on the cuticle of your ring finger.....your thumb should also rest near the first knuckle of your pointer finger....

and lastly.....and probably most importantly...... your ring and pinkie fingers are far to close to your palm....open them up more and the stick angle will follow....

it impedes your movement because of the stick angle......trust me...lay the stick on your cuticle and open your ring and pinkie a bit .....and watch the stick move into the correct position naturally

I would bet if you work on these things you will see improvement in your playing....

Ive heard great teachers say....if it was raining ...your palm should get wet but not hold water...

should look a bit more like this
dsc00206sm.jpg
 
Last edited:
I learned to keep both sticks at 45 degree angles, too, but check out Morello in this overhead clip. He seems to spread the left hand angle quite a bit during certain passages.

http://youtu.be/QMfZYPOt3EY
 
that is not good trad technique at all.....you might want to think abot talking to an instructor about it....

unless you have it supremely developed....think about talking to someone about correcting it......you could most likely get a lot more out of it than you currently are in that position.........

the stick should be on much more of an angle off your hand and the stick should lay on the cuticle of your ring finger.....your thumb should also rest near the first knuckle of your pointer finger....

and lastly.....and probably most importantly...... your ring and pinkie fingers are far to close to your palm....open them up more and the stick angle will follow....

it impedes your movement because of the stick angle......trust me...lay the stick on your cuticle and open your ring and pinkie a bit .....and watch the stick move into the correct position naturally

I would bet if you work on these things you will see improvement in your playing....

Ive heard great teachers say....if it was raining ...your palm should get wet but not hold water...

I just took a quick and dirty picture to show where my hands were in relation to the snare. My ring and pinkie fingers are normally farther back; like you said. The stick usually hits my ring finger cuticle.

However, I'm not sure that's the issue with my hand placement. If I play with only my thumb, my hand gravitates to the same position as in my picture.

"The stick should be on much more of an angle off your hand..."
I physically cannot do that. If I try to point the stick farther out, I can only manage a weak tap at best.
 
the stick should be on much more of an angle off your hand and the stick should lay on the cuticle of your ring finger.....

That's the way I do it, though there is a version of the grip that rests the stick where you have it- I've seen a picture of Buster Bailey resting the stick on the middle bone of the ring finger, like that. He also lays his thumb across the stick like you do, so I'm not going to say your basic grip is totally wrong. I sort of point my thumb and catch the stick with the left edge of my thumb joint- you can see that pretty well in my and Moon's pictures.

But it looks to me like your fulcrum is weak, which would explain the 90 degree thing- the stick should really be deep in the crease where between your thumb and your hand. It also looks like your hand may be cocked back a bit- though maybe it's just the camera angle. Your wrist should be straight- not hinged forward or back. To duplicate your hand position relative to your right hand, I have to bring my left arm way forward, which is bad- your wrists and fulcrums should line up, or close to it.

I would just be working on getting your fulcrum happening, and getting your basic forearm rotation stroke together- if you're using a lot of thumb and/or index finger to play easy stuff, stop it until the other things are solid.

My own technique is not exactly textbook- I never did master it to my prof's satisfaction- he used very little thumb, and had his palm completely hidden- but maybe this will help:
 

Attachments

  • DSC_5607.jpg
    DSC_5607.jpg
    119.9 KB · Views: 863
  • DSC_5608.jpg
    DSC_5608.jpg
    104.5 KB · Views: 773
I just took a quick and dirty picture to show where my hands were in relation to the snare. My ring and pinkie fingers are normally farther back; like you said. The stick usually hits my ring finger cuticle.

However, I'm not sure that's the issue with my hand placement. If I play with only my thumb, my hand gravitates to the same position as in my picture.

"The stick should be on much more of an angle off your hand..."
I physically cannot do that. If I try to point the stick farther out, I can only manage a weak tap at best.


if your hand was more open and the stick was on the cuticle the stick would naturally be at more of a 45 degree angle .......

this should have nothing to do with how hard you can attack the drum......thats all in your wrist snap ...doorknob type twist

practice open hand with no stick....palm facing almost straight up....and twisting your wrist with a snap so your thumb slaps the pad....thats the movement you want....and the velocity of that can only be affected by the angle of your stick.....

also hold the stick in the trad fulcrum only......with your hand open ...fingers facing forward...none around the stick ...and and hit the drum with just a wrist twist....then try using just thumb...like you would if you were using only fingers in matched grip.....

something is wrong with your motion I think
 
Thanks guys.

I just spent a couple hours messing with my left hand.

Extending my ring and pinky fingers out a little more helped. The stick still hits the same part of my finger--right around the cuticle/first knuckle area--but I was able to bring my hand back to around the 8 o'clock position. It felt a little awkward at first, but after a little bit, I started to feel comfortable. It takes a little concentration not to revert back to old habits.

Thanks again. The grip looks a lot better now.
 
old habits are so so so hard to break brother.....

keep it up.....glad we could help.....

Ive had so many people help me....and it feels good when I can return the favor ...even in the tiniest of ways.....

as drummers all we have is to learn from each other.....its sort of an elite fraternity .....and I like it that way..

shed wood
 
Back
Top