Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

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Well if it wasn't for the earlier Jazz players like Gene Krupa and Papa Jo, metal drummers and all other types of players for that matter wouldn't be playing the way we set-up today, those guys invented the drum kit as we know it, so no I don't think Jazz players are overrated at all...Jazz is the Genesis of drumset playing.

I know for a fact I used to have pre-conveived notions on all kinds of stuff regarding music, but, with time and openness I've come love to pretty much all well known forms of music that around today and lot's of lesser know and world music besides...there's enjoyment to be found in everything if you're willing to open your mind and search for it and it takes a while but it's worth it in the end.

Hope everyone's well,

Kev
 
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I don't know what you guys think of jazz, those guys are all useless. None of them know anything about blast beats, or double bass, or riding the crash at high volume.

I guarantee you your precious Max CockRoach couldn't possibly hold down a blast beat at 230bpm for 64 bars. Those guys are complete woosies.

I think Jazz players are in league with "the man." All they do is play for these adults living their lives in the box by corporate America. And anyway, Jazz has been around for like... ever.... it's old and it's for old people.

I have an idea, let's see if you jazz players can get out of the retirement home and come and play an amphitheater... oh wait, you cant. None of you know how to turn your amps up over 3.

Have you ever seen a jazz player break a cymbal? Neither have I. That's because they are weak and should be crushed by the long arm of TRUE METAL. I mean I know jazz players who haven't even broken a stick in like... years. Proves that they have no passion or will to play.

Oh, and while we're at it, where's the distortion? I don't hear any, that makes your music

B O R I N G

I've been to the DMV and had a more exciting time then I did when I saw Bela Flek and Chick Corea.


IF IT AIN'T GOT LOT'S O' LOUD NOTES, IT AIN'T MUSIC.
 
Post #2 from me ONLY because it''s REALLY needed IMHO......... aren't we smart enough as members here to heed Matt's warnings?...to not throw gas on the intial burning fire? Guess not folks......:{

Post and dash Trolls are best left ignored with their negative initial thoughts and negative message for the sake of the whole forum community I have learned from experience the hard way here believe me.

Responding to these threads brings out the worst in people and can turn things into a contest of going for the lowest level of ignorance rather than empathy and understanding for all {drummers} on a much more mature higher plane of understanding for all involved. No winners only loosers when the dust finally settles...nothing of any real value learned in the end. Continued divisions and ignorance and understanding rules. It that what everyone would like?....think about it.

This is a public service announcement choose to ignore or delete if needed and carry on...thank you for reading this message....
 
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Post #2 ONLY because it's needed......... aren't we smart enough to heed Matt's warnings...to not throw gas on the intial burning fire? Guess not......

Post and dash Trolls are best left ignored with their negative initial thoughts and message for the sake of the whole forum community I have learned from experience the hard way here.

Responding to these threads brings out the worst in people and can turn things into a contest of going for the lowest level ignorance rather than empathy and understanding for all {drummers} on a much more mature higher plane of understanding for all involved.

This is a public service announcement choose to ignore or delete if needed and carry on...thank you....

Agreed. Sorry I posted in this thread. I'm moving on. I'm a sucker for drama sometimes. I apologize to you personally for my role in perpetuating this thread. No matter what, I will not post again in this thread. So it is written, so shall it be.
 
Jazs sux lol. Tarvis Bakrer and Joye Jordsion is bettaaaar! They pley dubble base fastar!!!11

This is way more of a trolling a statement than the OP and statements like that only foment the division between genres.

Honestly, whether consciously or not, I think most folks (myself included) tend to think more highly of the musicians that play stuff they like. Metal music has always been about speed, but has become, in my opinion, a caricature of itself, and this is coming from a metal drummer. When I first heard Oppressor back in '93 I thought, "Man, this guy really uses double bass like a crutch," and that's how I feel about metal in general these days, especially (my favorite genre) death metal. I still get my hackles up when someone says that it's nothing but blasts and double kick, but that's a stereotype that seems to have been embraced by a majority of the players. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
 
I think there's something to be learned here, or at least discussed. So I ask again, why should a kid (well, to me he's a "kid" if he's twenty years old) who obviously holds the "great metal drummers" in high esteem be impressed with Roach's drumming? I would imagine that to him there's not much going on there compared to the huge-kit pyrotechnical playing that is the metal drummers' stock in trade.
 
I think there's something to be learned here, or at least discussed. So I ask again, why should a kid (well, to me he's a "kid" if he's twenty years old) who obviously holds the "great metal drummers" in high esteem be impressed with Roach's drumming? I would imagine that to him there's not much going on there compared to the huge-kit pyrotechnical playing that is the metal drummers' stock in trade.
I'd tend to say that he hasn't watched the right Max Roach video or heard the right tracks by him. But hell, maybe the kid just hates jazz. Max Roach is arguably the best jazz drummer of all time, he'll find that out if he ever gets into it.
 
Come on Guys, He is just a troll! He joined and made one post just to laugh at us.
This was like a prank phone call to this guy!
Forget about it!
He hasn't even posted again!
Don't be suckers to his stupid prank.
Let this die a peaceful death.
 
That's another thing then, Jazz is for girls.

lol - and also for boys who are as smart as girls ;-)

JeremyS said:
Metal music has always been about speed, but has become, in my opinion, a caricature of itself, and this is coming from a metal drummer.

Interesting comment. I think this tends to happen in all genres. Also in other art forms like painting and movies.

bobdadruma said:
Come on Guys, He is just a troll! He joined and made one post just to laugh at us.

Bob, by the wording of the OP, I don't think he's trolling. It's his first post. How could anyone walking in here as a newb know the history of this forum's neuroses? :)

It's a fair enough thing for a young guy to say because Max Roach's vids on YouTube are variable in quality and he might have seen one of the weaker ones, plus the guy is pretty subtle. If he'd been shown Buddy or Art he might have felt differently.
 
Come on Guys, He is just a troll! He joined and made one post just to laugh at us.
This was like a prank phone call to this guy!
Forget about it!
He hasn't even posted again!
Don't be suckers to his stupid prank.
Let this die a peaceful death.

Well, maybe Bob. But it does bring up a point or two that may be worth discussing, that's all I'm saying.
 
Well, maybe Bob. But it does bring up a point or two that may be worth discussing, that's all I'm saying.
I don't see what there is to discuss!
This thread was intended to set people off, plain and simple.
We all have respect for drummers of all genres here at Drummerworld.
We all respect each other and the music that we play.
Drummers play rhythms that fit the music.
That is our job!
Metal drummers do their job, Jazz and bop drummers do their job. Rock drummers do their job.
Blues drummers do their job. So on down the line.
That is the answer to the question that the IP presented. We play what fits! Max played what fit. End of story.
 
Bob, by the wording of the OP, I don't think he's trolling. It's his first post. How could anyone walking in here as a newb know the history of this forum's neuroses? :)

It's a fair enough thing for a young guy to say because Max Roach's vids on YouTube are variable in quality and he might have seen one of the weaker ones, plus the guy is pretty subtle. If he'd been shown Buddy or Art he might have felt differently.
Polly, This guy could have lurked for months before joining. We don't know that.
I gave the first response in this thread and I suggested that he study some more and look again at the drumming that he was referring to.
He hasn't posted since. He is either studying or laughing!
 
This thread was intended to set people off, plain and simple.

Nope. How's he to know that people will go off? As a newb on the forum he'd have to scout around all over the place to find our loopy jazz threads. Yes, he may have been lurking but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, it's easy for us to say "No, they aren't overrated. Go see XYZ link". It doesn't have to be a drama.

I think Alan meant the comment to challenge what he saw as orthodoxy and that's fair enough IMO. He's asking if the emperor is wearing any clothes. I think the emperor is very well dressed myself, but we shouldn't begrudge someone asking the question. It's not his fault that we regulars have batted this ball around for eons.
 
One more i'm sorry because Bernhard here at DW always post the best clips on THIS very site...forget searching YouTube folks :}

Max in full flight. End of thread discussion folks or better put throws some water on the original trolling content and "flames" instead setting its own honest fully engaged "fire" on the subject of all things Max Roach:


http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/maxroachsession.html
 
I'm sorry Polly, This smelled bad to me right from the start. It still does!
 
I'm sorry Polly, This smelled bad to me right from the start. It still does!

Bob, the way I see it, if he's been lurking for a long time then he probably would like to be part of the DW community. It wouldn't make much sense to make your first post one that guarantees hostility.

Some people might be weird enough to do it, sure, but I didn't get that vibe from his OP. He just sounded like he's inexperienced with this side of music.

PS. I can't view the Max vid because my browser blocks it.
 
I just don't see any reason for anyone to be outraged by this. The kid is ignorant, yes, but why shouldn't he be? Where does it say that all young drummers need to have in their DNA an automatic respect and esteem for jazz drumming?

I've been working with a couple of kids lately, one wants to be a drummer and the other wants to learn something about theory and composition. Neither of them know the first thing about jazz. They've never heard it. They're living in a whole other world, the world they grew up in.

The kid who wants to be a drummer listens to nothing but metal. He's already got a double bass pedal on his little drum kit. What he needs to learn is consistency and control. His hands need a lot of work. Why should jazz in any way speak to him, given the musical culture he's grown up in?

The kid who wants to learn about composition, he's into rap. He wants to learn music theory so he can play a keyboard, so he can be conversant in music, but his main focus is on beats and sounds and all that. He comes up wiith the damndest things, breaking every rule in the book, but he's actually pretty talented. Why should jazz in any way speak to him, given the musical culture he's grown up in?
 
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