Sound guy rant

Just about every sound guy seems to ruin things, a good one is rare. They always seem to think the louder the better and they especially crank the kick so that it's totally out of proportion with the rest of the kit. At most gigs bring the toms is a waste of energy, no one will hear them anyway.
 
Soundguys don't put in the hours (and expenses) of practice like the musicians. But I know that is a losing argument, so I'll stop there.

Seriously now Larryace - I see that you're upset but that's just not right.

I'm not arguing that there are poor examples in the trade, but one of the hardest things in being a sound'person" is trying to make a band sound good when they play like cr@p, have cr@p instruments and cr@p equipment. The band then comes along and listens to the recording and say "that sounds like cr@p - what did you do to us.....". The true answer is "I recorded what you sound like" - but you can't say that to them......

I often hear musicians panning the soundperson but I rarely hear a soundperson panning the musicians. I rarely hear a live band sound good, but I don't automatically blame the soundperson.

2c only
 
I just think sound guys should get an equal cut with the musicians, not make more.

With exceptions of course, for example if the musicians are doing a charity thing then the soundman should still get paid.
 
Just about every sound guy seems to ruin things, a good one is rare. They always seem to think the louder the better and they especially crank the kick so that it's totally out of proportion with the rest of the kit. At most gigs bring the toms is a waste of energy, no one will hear them anyway.

I relate to this.

Many (not all) sound guys don't seem to care about toms. It's a downer when you've worked out a part where you, say, play the alternate backbeats on the toms. What should be going BAP BOOM BAP BOOM becomes BAP [nothing] BAP [nothing] ... so much for adding a bit of colour, eh?

I love small gigs where the drums can be heard acoustically.
 
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For every dud, there's always a cracker Larry......if you did an honest appraisal of every sound guy that's driven your desk over the years, I'll wager the good outweigh the bad. We've had guys make a total abortion out of an outherwise solid performance and we've had guys with such a keen ear that calls like "mate, your E string needs a tweak, it's a shade flat" were the norm.

Makes you appreciate the gems doesn't it.
 
On the rant side, I hate so called soundpeople who think they are record producers. They try to get everything on stage as quiet as possible so that they can "control" everything in the mix. Maybe in an A or B level gig in a large venue where everything is coming though the PA. But even there, good sound people are fighting with the venue's (hockey arena, or convention center) horrible acoustics. But in a bar or small club, there's no way to avoid the stage sound. And the people in front (like dancing in a typical bar) are in front of the PA and don't hear the same mix as the "soundman". And it's the people in front that you are trying to impress. So a balanced and energetic stage sound with wedges and infills for the vocals and then sound "reinforcement" for the rest of the room.

And those "producer" folks superimpose their own idea of what it is supposed to sound like on whatever is playing. When I played in an R&B/Funk cover band, we had soundpeople tweak the kick to everything from a metal click to an 808 boom. Depending on what "they" liked. None of which sounded anything like the real kick, or how we played it when we were using cut down versions of my sound system from the stage.

One of the mantras for accomplished soundfolk is "walk the room". Meaning move around and hear what the audience hears. Not just what it sounds like at your prime location, or in the cans.
 
I played one show over the summer were we stopped in the middle of a song and told the sound guy through the P.A we are not playing another note until you fix your monitor mix and your feed back issues. The sound and the monitors were so bad we could not here each other and made it impossible to play. A bad sound guy can ruin a performance and make the band look Bad. He did not fix much and he did not have a clue how to run sound. we tried 2 more songs and called it a night. The singer said sorry blame it on the sound guy. By the way the sound guy was an A hole on top of it.
 
I played one show over the summer were we stopped in the middle of a song and told the sound guy through the P.A we are not playing another note until you fix your monitor mix and your feed back issues. The sound and the monitors were so bad we could not here each other and made it impossible to play. A bad sound guy can ruin a performance and make the band look Bad. He did not fix much and he did not have a clue how to run sound. we tried 2 more songs and called it a night.

Wow Doggie, you guys are confident.

One of my old bands had our sound sabotaged twice by the crew of the bands we were supporting. In the worst instance they left the PA howling with low humming feedback and walked out. We played the whole gig like that and at no stage did it occur to us to stop and say, "Fix this or we stop".

After reading your post I kind of wish we had that kind of chutzpah.
 
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Oh I know what this is like, we had a gig last night that was kind of like this. The mix was all wrong and for the first time ever I was actually blamed for feedback!!!!! From the bass drum mic, as if I have any control over that, honestly!!!!
 
...

I've had more than a few 'shoot the sound guy' moments, but I think there are as many goofballs on either side of the board, so blame has to be apportioned with a pinch of salt.

I know enough musicians who mess with their levels on stage even after sound check ( all the time..duh!!! ) and then look shocked and disgusted by feedback and hums.

I also think a lot of musicians dont realize the fundamental difference between the sound they hear on stage and the sound out front - monitors/ no monitors, PA or no PA, its a whole different ball game to begin with so there is an obvious difference in perception between the players and the soundguy.

Its like trying to agree on sound that the two sides of the instruments hear differently. Like a perennial cold war.

My biggest beef with these creatures ( ; ) is that sometimes they make Lamb of God, Jethro Tull, Pearl Jam and Joan Baez, all sound like Lamb of God...

....
 
Larry, there's actually a reason why a sound guy would have headphones on, but if he kept them on a lot of the time, it's indicative of an OC disease. The cans let you solo an instrument to see what it sounds like by itself. If someone is busy trying to get each channel to sound "optimum" they will spend the entire gig in the cans tweaking each channel and never listening to the overall mix.

You solo something when you hear something funny or realize that something is off and you're looking for it. For the most part, you should be able to go back and forth between soloing an instrument (let's say your rack tom) and then going back to the mix in the air to hear if the eq cuts you made cleaned things up. Solo'd the tom may not sound very good, but in the overall mix, it may have distinction and allow your fills to be heard against the keyboardists left hand or whatever.

Many bands I've done sound for have everyone going at once. Often in the same register or sonic space. Most of the time, you can chop out 90% of the comping instruments that are consistently banging away. You'll still get a wash of the chord or harmony that's underpinning what is going on, but it won't overwhelm it. If you find the occasional musician who is spaciously stabbing comps in where it fits the arrangement, then you can leave them up.

The trick is recognizing when someone needs to be brought back up for a solo or fill part that is germane to the song. Musicians to mix themselves on stage are so much easier to work with. Get a balance and cut what you need so that the various instruments aren't getting muddy in the room, and sound as much like they do on stage as you can, and then sit back and enjoy the show. Unfortunately, that happens rarely.
An excellent balanced (excuse the pun) post.
 
Wow Doggie, you guys are confident.

One of my old bands had our sound sabotaged twice by the crew of the bands we were supporting. In the worst instance they left the PA howling with low humming feedback and walked out. We played the whole gig like that and at no stage did it occur to us to stop and say, "Fix this or we stop".

After reading your post I kind of wish we had that kind of chutzpah.


we had no choice. If you can't hear each other how are you suppost to play. It may have been different if the guitar players brought amps instead of there nifty little plug in play pods.
 
we had no choice. If you can't hear each other how are you suppost to play. It may have been different if the guitar players brought amps instead of there nifty little plug in play pods.

Okay. Gee, no amps ... those two songs you played must have been a nightmare!

Closest thing I had to that level of "stage deafness" was when I was in my teens, playing maybe my 2nd or 3rd gig ... raw as anything.

We played in a band comp in a town hall with acoustics not designed for a rock band. The guitarist started with the riff and all I could hear was WRUMMMMMMMMMMMMM ... a huge amorphous roar. I couldn't make out a single note.

I had NO idea when the 4 bars were done and I still remember the terror ... which you might have felt at that gig. I took a wild stab at the intro and somewhere in the next few bars we must have sorted out the mess somewhat. In the end we came third in the comp because our singer, in a desperate attempt to impress the judges, hurled himself against a wall at the side of the stage. That seemed to amuse everyone :)

Redikuluss!
 
The whole stage vs audience sound can be a nightmare at times.

My band either does our own sound from the stage or Our sound gal does it when she's available.

Though we have had a terrible experience with one venue. It is well known in our local area and many pro bands have played there. We were supporting another band and where told that the sound guy would record the mix through the desk so that we had our own copy, which we were really excitied about.

This place has quite a pro set-up with stage lights, front desk as well as a side desk.

However we had 1 guy running both. He did an ok job while we were playing- yet the headline act we were supporting didnt bring any support in. So after we finished and they got on stage- most of the crowd we had brought left the venue.

We sat at the bar and watched the main act and all through their entire set the desk was just lit up red all across the board.


They sounded horrendous. When we got the recording back- it was laughable- I was playing some pro standard Pearl thing which sounded like I was playing tupperware!

The band mix is so poor I think my 5 year could of done a better job.


We just felt so bad for the other band because it seemed as when the people left the sound guy just seemed to give up caring
 
As long as we're ripping on soundmen, one of my biggest pet peeves with them is that they don't (or won't?) want to work with a bass drum that has a full reso head. What's up with that?
I actually heard one ask how to mike one. Seriously?! How do you mike a tom without a hole?!
Argh!!!
 
I've been down this road with the rest of you. At one of our local venues they have a sound guy that claims to have run sound for Journey, but yet we are lucky if 1 out of every 5 shows we play there sounds good. He never has enough mics for my kit, the monitor mix always sounds like mush, and on ocassion the PA will completely shut down. I don't know if there's anything that kills the vibe (on stage and in the audience) faster than being mid song and then the PA shuts down.

I like the idea of having your own sound person as part of the band. Definetly will be trying to do this in the future, but how does one go about telling the venues owner/manager that they don't want their sound guy running sound during your set? I can see this posing even more issues than just dealing with it and hoping for the best. I have a feeling if you make too much of a fuss you and your band may not ever be asked back.
 
There is a Stevie Ray Vaugh tribute band around my area that travels with their own sound man. In other words, he is a member of the band. They are fortunate enough to have a road manager and a dedicated sound man. But then these guys charge a cover of $10.00 and gig about 3 or 4 times a week and are always on the road. So, it's def a professional band and they are making money.

Then some friends heard them play at Spencer's Corner in west Fort Worth one night and the sound completely sucked. Guess what, Spencer's had their "own" sound man, a guy employed by the bar to run sound.

I totally agree. If you are lucky enough to find a good sound man, make him a member of the band and pay him his share of the take.

The bands I've been in, the sound guy has completely ruined the sound. You can't spend 15 minutes on sound and expect things to be right for a 2 or 3 or 4 hour show.

These d-bags spend 15 minutes jacking with the sound, then go off and grab a beer or blow a reefer and come back and act like they are the HNIC and expect to get paid???

It's true, I had a sound guy regale me for 1/2 hour about the virtues of porting a bass drum reso head and says he won't even touch a bass drum if it's not ported. This was a house sound guy. I asked what happens if a band comes to town and their bass isn't ported like he wants it? He simply replied he doesn't mic it and went on further to say if the band wants to work with him, they port their bass drum. And he expects 10% cut of what the band makes. Yeah, sure pal.....
 
Another vote for having a sound guy as an equal member. Plus you get the added benefit of them knowing your stuff, and can really tailor the sound. This is just another hassle you have to deal with to put out good live music. But man what a difference good sound can make. I've seen good but average sounding (PA-wise) bar bands who I know real well get a gig opening for a major name and play in a nice venue with great sound...let me tell you how many levels they rose up just from playing through a great system...
 
As long as we're ripping on soundmen, one of my biggest pet peeves with them is that they don't (or won't?) want to work with a bass drum that has a full reso head. What's up with that?
I actually heard one ask how to mike one. Seriously?! How do you mike a tom without a hole?!
Argh!!!

I much prefer the sound of drums with both heads, but it is far easier to mic up single head drums - little spill is a great thing live - concert toms were the live mixer's dream come true ;-)
 
I know how you feel Larry. I played a battle of the bands at a club several years ago and they had a killer PA. 10,000 watts of Crown amps, Bag End speakers and a sound guy who couldn't do anything with it. It was sad. Our sound was just so thin.

Played another outdoor gig with a sound guy that the headliner band hired. Terrible sound. He had ancient Peavey equipment (not that there's anything wrong with that). He hated my DW 4x14 piccolo snare and complained the whole time about it.

I volunteered to run sound at church and found that even though I'm not pro by any means, I seem to have a knack for it and everyone has complimented my abilities. I really enjoy doing it too.

In my last band I have worked with a fantastic sound guy who is absolutely anal about the sound. He worked with me very closely and gave me the sound I wanted. We consistently had a good sound with him.
 
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