More Creative on a Smaller Kit

OK so this sheds light. So in a way, we are both playing off the others. Being's I don't really speak the language of jazz, it seems to me that the players....at times....to me....it seems like they aren't listening to one another and just playing the song individually. For instance like during a hard bop sax solo. On paper I know that sounds pretty bad, and I know that can't be the way it is, but to someone who isn't hip to the language...that's how it seems....at times. It feels disconnected to me, even though my logical mind knows there is a connection. I just can't grasp it a lot of the time. Jazz is on a much higher level than I am capable of understanding....at this point in my journey anyway.


I think you are perfectly capable of understanding it 100% Lar.... I think what makes it all murky to you is simply the lack of time spent with it

just a different language thats all
 
OK so this sheds light. So in a way, we are both playing off the others. Being's I don't really speak the language of jazz, it seems to me that the players....at times....to me....it seems like they aren't listening to one another and just playing the song individually. For instance like during a hard bop sax solo. On paper I know that sounds pretty bad, and I know that can't be the way it is, but to someone who isn't hip to the language...that's how it seems....at times. It feels disconnected to me, even though my logical mind knows there is a connection. I just can't grasp it a lot of the time. Jazz is on a much higher level than I am capable of understanding....at this point in my journey anyway.

Like I said earlier Jazz from my limited understanding is a big web of music, there's a general shape to the song and everyone is working towards that shape. But everyone weaves their part a bit differently within that web. So it has the big picture up front that can amaze you and also the individual view you can take on each artist weaving their part.

Complex and creative music that I've never played but it seems like a riot of fun.
 
People gravitate to music that speaks to them. Like I figured out the individual elements of jazz that don't speak to me. Most songs have no lyrics, and I really like lyrics, they're huge to me. Also any jazz that has a lack of chords. When everything is single note stuff, I can't take too much. I need chords. I do like the piano trios like Oscar Peterson. Also jazz that is heavily chord based. Love jazz chords. The jazz songs with chords and lyrics are my favorite jazz songs. The chords make me feel good and I can understand what emotion is trying to be conveyed by the lyrics. The rest of it is too avant garde for my simple tastes.
 
UGH, is this thread now "why jazz is so great and everyone should agree"...

as far as the original point here, I think that someone playing along to a song on a kit not suited isn't being creative. if you want to join a prog rock band and only play a 3 piece kit, you wont really have all of the tools for the job. some music just needs the highs and lows from a drummer that a small kit cant provide.
 
UGH, is this thread now "why jazz is so great and everyone should agree"...

as far as the original point here, I think that someone playing along to a song on a kit not suited isn't being creative. if you want to join a prog rock band and only play a 3 piece kit, you wont really have all of the tools for the job. some music just needs the highs and lows from a drummer that a small kit cant provide.

I certainly apologize if I was one of the contributors to that view. Wasn't my intention to do so. It's certainly not a reflection of how I view things.
 
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I certainly apologize if I was one of the contributors to that view. Wasn't my intention to do so. It's certainly now a reflection of how I view things.

no apologies needed, I opened the tread to comment and read back a bunch of posts and couldn't find one on topic.
 
UGH, is this thread now "why jazz is so great and everyone should agree"...

It wasn't prior to this post. I was the one that went closet to that flame by stating reasons jazz and me don't get on and for that I apologize.

OT, IMO, the kit and creativity are mutually exclusive.

Also a question. Is creativity and reactivity the same thing? I'm going with no, but I'm probably wrong. In my mind, reactivity has external input, where creativity I think of as coming from within. Not stating this as fact, just opinion.

Opinions? Cheers? Jeers?
 
Also a question. Is creativity and reactivity the same thing? I'm going with no, but I'm probably wrong. In my mind, reactivity has external input, where creativity I think of as coming from within. Not stating this as fact, just opinion.

Opinions? Cheers? Jeers?
Cannot the need to react be the catalyst for creativity? I think it's perfectly possible to react creatively. Perhaps a player is creative by instinct, & therefore that player reacting instinctively is creative. Equally, is creativity not in the ears of the listener more than the player? If I hear something I haven't heard before, either conceptually or contextually, I regard that as creative. The player however, may regard that as instinctive, because he's/she's used that piece before. Is it possible to be creative more than once using the same piece?

Just head juggling ;)
 
Cannot the need to react be the catalyst for creativity? I think it's perfectly possible to react creatively. Perhaps a player is creative by instinct, & therefore that player reacting instinctively is creative. Equally, is creativity not in the ears of the listener more than the player? If I hear something I haven't heard before, either conceptually or contextually, I regard that as creative. The player however, may regard that as instinctive, because he's/she's used that piece before. Is it possible to be creative more than once using the same piece?

Just head juggling ;)

I like juggling :)

Excellent points all around and yes, I suppose that of course a person can give a creative reaction to stimuli.

As for the question of whose mind is the creativity in, what a great question. There's creativity judged by civilian standards and creativity judged by musician standards. Not sure which has more clout TBH. I'd say civilians, because they are the ones who make or break a band. Their opinion matters more than our view on our own music, IMO lol.

Is reactivity and creativity the same thing? I'm stuck in a loop I think.
 
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Cannot the need to react be the catalyst for creativity? I think it's perfectly possible to react creatively. Perhaps a player is creative by instinct, & therefore that player reacting instinctively is creative. Equally, is creativity not in the ears of the listener more than the player? If I hear something I haven't heard before, either conceptually or contextually, I regard that as creative. The player however, may regard that as instinctive, because he's/she's used that piece before. Is it possible to be creative more than once using the same piece?

Just head juggling ;)

I'd agree that reacting is creative since you're suddenly faced with a musical challenge/problem and you have to create something that works. So is creativity really just problem solving?

I think creativity for the listener and the drummer happen at different times. The drummer first notices it when they find the fill, beat, groove etc. and the listener hears it after it's polished,(hopefully). The same creative element discovered at different times, like a photographer snapping the picture and someone looking at the photo later on.

I think it's creative to put together a really solid drum track that makes the song shine, even if it's something you've played before. You still have to think, "What should I put here? What fill should I put in here? What if I did this instead?" I think there's a large scale view of creativity when making a drum track that goes outside of just beats and fills.
 
As for the question of whose mind is the creativity in, what a great question. There's creativity judged by civilian standards and creativity judged by musician standards. Not sure which has more clout TBH. I'd say civilians, because they are the ones who make or break a band. Their opinion matters more than our view on our own music, IMO lol.
I love the civilian / musician bit! Ha ha! But I have to point out that both have tastes that are all over the map.

I have one foot firmly planted in each grave (civilian and muso) so I don't even think about what some random listener may think. I know that people vote with their wallets, but since Justin Beiber moves a ton of units, I can't bring myself to get too worked up over strictly civilian tastes.

Best I can do is create and play what I would want to hear and hope that it finds its way to those who like the same things. Besides, my tastes aren't so esoteric and over the top that I feel alone with them. If I'm really digging on something, chances are good that someone else will too, so I have to let that part take care of itself. If I take my favorite elements (like a Beatles / Jesus Lizard hybrid, for example) and make something kick ass outta that, I'm pretty sure it will find an appreciative audience - small as it might be.

But hey, it's a labor of love that takes me out of my day-to-day, so I'm not worried about moving units or making money.
 
I don't think it's a matter of larger or smaller. As someone pointed out earlier, it's really just difference that sometimes helps get the juices flowing.

I like all kinds of setups, large and small, so I'm just getting a "shell bank" together, and then I can put together whatever kit suits the gig or my fancy...kind of like Bermuda does with his Ludwig arsenal.
 
I went from a 7pc kit to a 6pc to 5pc then to 4pc and stayed like that for 20 years. Now I'm back to 6pc (kick/snare/two up/two down) and lovin' it. The music I'm playing benefits from the extra voices.

That being said, I do believe that playing on a 4pc kit most definitely makes you dig a little deeper for that creativity. Your options are narrowed and you can't do the pedestrian "wraparound fill".
 
On my 6 piece setup, I sometimes "wrap around" up the toms left hand lead. That usually opens a few eyes ;) Creative? - nah, just a bit quirky :)

I found it's nessesary for some fills to avoid crossing arms on the second tom, and my left hand always leads when I do falams. This is still a problem present on a small kit too.

EDIT: Are we just talking ergonomics now?
 
I went from a 7pc kit to a 6pc to 5pc then to 4pc and stayed like that for 20 years. Now I'm back to 6pc (kick/snare/two up/two down) and lovin' it. The music I'm playing benefits from the extra voices.

That being said, I do believe that playing on a 4pc kit most definitely makes you dig a little deeper for that creativity. Your options are narrowed and you can't do the pedestrian "wraparound fill".

After reading this I'm thinking, from an audience and other band members perspective, the extra voices (larger kit) would be better.
How many listeners would think, "Gee this drummer is really creative. He/she is getting a lot of different sounds out of that smaller 4 piece kit".
And after all isn't our goal to entertain people?

PS: This thread is exhausting. Maybe there should be a limit on how many responses can be made in each thread. That way we would be forced to be more creative with our responses.


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After reading this I'm thinking, from an audience and other band members perspective, the extra voices (larger kit) would be better.
How many listeners would think, "Gee this drummer is really creative. He/she is getting a lot of different sounds out of that smaller 4 piece kit".
And after all isn't our goal to entertain people?

PS: This thread is exhausting. Maybe there should be a limit on how many responses can be made in each thread. That way we would be forced to be more creative with our responses.


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I always love it when someone would come up and say "man you make that tiny little kit sound like Neil Peart!" Always a good thing to hear. :D
 
I always love it when someone would come up and say "man you make that tiny little kit sound like Neil Peart!" Always a good thing to hear. :D

Yeah your right on that one !!

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Suffice to say, in response to the OP - yes, paring back on your kit can stimulate creativity. This says nothing about creativity and big kits or midsize kits.

Take away a few pieces of a kit and you obviously have to do more with the remaining pieces. That adds skills that a drummer can bring to a larger kit.

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