More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Certainly not. We'd have a world-wide awesome overload if everyone was like me. The only thing that would save us is my exceedingly perfect sense of modesty.
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Genius. No one does it like Watso.

You should be on TV. So instead of listening to you, I could turn you off!

JK, you slay me man.
 
Certainly not. We'd have a world-wide awesome overload if everyone was like me. The only thing that would save us is my exceedingly perfect sense of modesty.


That all sounds great. At the same time, I think forcing limits on yourself so that you don't have those options will cause you to think in new ways and foster some new creative responses to the normal situations where you would use a voice you're familiar with. If you've got 7 toms, I think you're naturally going to be more inclined to use all the different drums for the different sounds... When I only have a few drums to use, I'm more inclined to pull more sounds out of what I have... It's a creative process that gets me away from the usual go to fills, beats, and ideas in general which are much easier to play.

Now we're getting somewhere!

If I had just a stripped out 4 piece kit with hats, a crash and ride, I'd probably be crashing my hats during fills where I would use a second crash or using the ride for more accents where my splashes would be. I don't see this as being creative only rearranging what I already have.

I study each element of my big kit with the same intensity I would on a smaller kit. I want to get everything I can out of what's infront of me whether it's a splash or something as versatile hats or a ride. I constantly try to out do what I've previously played and come up with fresh ideas by combining select elements from my kit I've never played together or played a certain way.

Quite often I have to play on my friends electric kit which is missing the proper switch for the hihat so it's on or off, it only has a ride and crash for cymbals and is a basic four piece. I don't think more or less about the playing, my mind adjusts for the kit and I carry on playing what needs to be played.
 
Now we're getting somewhere!
Great! I love it when I can get somewhere by repeating the same thing enough times!

If I had just a stripped out 4 piece kit with hats, a crash and ride, I'd probably be crashing my hats during fills where I would use a second crash or using the ride for more accents where my splashes would be. I don't see this as being creative only rearranging what I already have.
Not only is that creativity to replace sounds with other sounds, I think you could expand on this and be even more creative if you work on it a bit. Maybe instead of a big crash at the end of a fill, you could come up with a totally different idea that fits the same space! Your example of crashing on the hats is a good one, anyway, because I think that this is really something most drummers ignore or neglect. Beyond chokes, we don't have a lot of control over the notes on a crash in the same way we do with a pair of hats we can alter with our left foot. Things like how much foot pressure we use, where we hit them, and when we close them will all have an effect on the sound you produce, and all of it will sound different, at least slightly from the regular crash we're used to. You said yourself you don't really think much about these options until your go-to crash isn't available. Ergo......... The limitation could spur creativity!

I study each element of my big kit with the same intensity I would on a smaller kit. I want to get everything I can out of what's infront of me whether it's a splash or something as versatile hats or a ride. I constantly try to out do what I've previously played and come up with fresh ideas by combining select elements from my kit I've never played together or played a certain way.
As you're highlighting, with nearly any combination of kit, there are more combinations of sounds we could be getting than we likely would ever realize. For me, it's hard to start worrying about a ton of other things beyond a basic kit, because, as mentioned, I know I haven't done it all with that basic setup. There's still tons to learn, and a ton of ways to express myself that I haven't thought of yet. The more time I spend on the basics, the better I get with them.

On that thought, I want to re-itterate. I'm not suggesting that everyone should always use as small a kit as possible, I'm trying to encourage the use of limitation as much as possible. It changes our focus from trying to do lots with lots, to trying to do lots with a little.

Quite often I have to play on my friends electric kit which is missing the proper switch for the hihat so it's on or off, it only has a ride and crash for cymbals and is a basic four piece. I don't think more or less about the playing, my mind adjusts for the kit and I carry on playing what needs to be played.
I actually find that electronic sounds are a big limitation with drumming. A pad is a pad, it does what it's programmed to do. A single drum or cymbal has more colors than you'd find on an entire e-kit in most cases. I have a few electronic kits myself, and actually have a hard time not spending stupid amounts of time messing with all the different sounds in the module, and the combinations.
 
I just think any sense of context is missing here in most of the answers (save Tony and a few others).

Creative how?

If you're playing covers, or backing a band with specific parts, how "creative" can you really be when you're expected to deliver specific parts?

If you hired to play in a Rush tribute band, and you show up with a 4pc, are you really being "more creative" or just looking to get fired?

I get with a jazz gig, improv and creativity are part of the job, but one generally doesn't take a large piece kit to a jazz gig anyway.

And I still don't totally buy into the "creative" argument. Yes, less pieces may force you think more, and transpose some ideas to less drums on the fly (and I've done this many times with house kits) But are you really playing anything you didn't already know how to do? Or are you just thinking more about thing you already know how to do?

Great post. It brings up a lot of questions. Clearly, creativity means different things to different people. We are all debating something that has no universally accepted definition. So naturally we are going to go around in circles.

My 2 cents: Playing the same fills on less pieces out of necessity isn't creative, at all. There's no choice in the matter. It's the same figure. So orchestrating it more sparcely doesn't register with me. That's relatively easy since there's not many options. I would hope genuine creativity would be higher than that.

So what's creative and what isn't? True creativity to me happens when you become a conduit and shit just flows out. Sure you can be really creative with your conscious mind, Neil Peart comes to mind, but that's a long way from say like being on the level of a Hiromi.

It's like we're debating the color orange. It means different things to different people, so any mass agreement is unlikely.

Like mass agreement on anything is even likely around here lol.
 
True creativity to me happens when you become a conduit and shit just flows out.

In that case, some nice spicy enchiladas can make me extremely creative the next morning.
 
I'd like to add 2 things here

1. creativity has absolutely nothing to do with how many surfaces you play .... but ....if play less of them than you are used to you will find out how creative you really are

2. seems most of you are talking about back beat based music.... rock, blues , country or whatever.... which in my opinion is way harder to be "creative" in because in most rock based music your foundation is mapped out for you for the most part

I play a lot of jazz and it is very easy to be creative and explore because you are completely free ... even if you are playing a well known tune or a standard ... no one expects to hear a certain version of Autumn Leaves, or Round Midnight , or Blue Monk... the melody is basically just a check point for the soloists.
with freedom like that your canvas is enormous

on rock or hip hop gigs I play .... my canvas is not nearly as big because more of a foundation is expected of me .
of course I can still branch out and be creative but there is not nearly as much room .

so when you guys are talking about playing "fills" on a smaller kit or re orchestrating your "fills" on a different kit.... I don't think that has anything at all to do with creativity .
that is just you playing what you always play on a different amount of drums .
pretty much the complete opposite of creativity.

my point is

if Larry is playing Red House or Pride and Joy ... how much room does he really have to get "creative" ... he can move around a bit within those confines .... but those confines are definitely there.... it really won't matter if he has 7 toms or 2 ...

what is creativity in a musical sense ? ... using your imagination to orchestrate original ideas .... more or less right ?

so depending on what you are playing creativity may not be called for at all .

someone like Neil Peart plays the same thing every night.... verbatim ... you might as well program the parts and sit backstage and have a beer

someone like Bill Stewart will never play the same thing twice
 
I'd like to add 2 things here

1. creativity has absolutely nothing to do with how many surfaces you play .... but ....if play less of them than you are used to you will find out how creative you really are

2. seems most of you are talking about back beat based music.... rock, blues , country or whatever.... which in my opinion is way harder to be "creative" in because in most rock based music your foundation is mapped out for you for the most part

I play a lot of jazz and it is very easy to be creative and explore because you are completely free ... even if you are playing a well known tune or a standard ... no one expects to hear a certain version of Autumn Leaves, or Round Midnight , or Blue Monk... the melody is basically just a check point for the soloists.
with freedom like that your canvas is enormous

on rock or hip hop gigs I play .... my canvas is not nearly as big because more of a foundation is expected of me .
of course I can still branch out and be creative but there is not nearly as much room .

so when you guys are talking about playing "fills" on a smaller kit or re orchestrating your "fills" on a different kit.... I don't think that has anything at all to do with creativity .
that is just you playing what you always play on a different amount of drums .
pretty much the complete opposite of creativity.

my point is

if Larry is playing Red House or Pride and Joy ... how much room does he really have to get "creative" ... he can move around a bit within those confines .... but those confines are definitely there.... it really won't matter if he has 7 toms or 2 ...

what is creativity in a musical sense ? ... using your imagination to orchestrate original ideas .... more or less right ?

so depending on what you are playing creativity may not be called for at all .

someone like Neil Peart plays the same thing every night.... verbatim ... you might as well program the parts and sit backstage and have a beer

someone like Bill Stewart will never play the same thing twice

That's more than 2 things Ant :)

Great post. Re: the bolded part...In my mind the amount of creativity I have is in direct proportion to the amount of creativity in the particular solo I'm supporting. So it's not really all in my control. You can only do so much, but by the same token, it can get to a "peak experience" state with the right players. Restraint is the very thing that makes blues what it is. After all it was originated by a people who had nothing but restraints. Restraints don't stop creativity, they just make it go in different directions, like training a plant

A drummer can't play "outward" so much with the restraints of say blues. But a drummer can play "inward" to an infinite degree. It's a completely reverse mindset than say a metal drummer

I'd be lost without the restraints. I sort of count on them. My hat goes off to the free music players.

Re: the underlined part: I'd just add in the context of the music, but that's already implied.
 
That's more than 2 things Ant :)

I got carried away :)

... and just by reading the responses in this thread it is evident that you are all very creative people ... your thoughts and comments feed me ... I'm being serious

very good discussion that I enjoyed reading
 
Speaking about reading, just last night, I finally started reading "The Inner Game of Tennis" you recommended. I bought it like a year ago lol.

Yea that's a page turner lol.
 
Creative how?
As I see it, this is the 'right' question. Haha.

Real creativity belongs in the song writing process.
I kind of like this idea since it is true (and often overlooked), but I have reservations about calling it "real" or "true" creativity since it is only one place, or context, in which creativity exists. The next most obvious place being on the fly during a performance.
someone like Neil Peart plays the same thing every night.... verbatim ... you might as well program the parts and sit backstage and have a beer

someone like Bill Stewart will never play the same thing twice
Two excellent examples of playing at opposite ends of the creative spectrum. One front-loads it while the other expresses in a real-time way.

It's possible to say that such a hardened compositional approach, such as NP's, cuts into his creative side later, but it's also possible to say that the improv-only player either never had the composition part down, or was just not that interested in it to begin with, at least not in the NP sense.

Composition vs Improvisation - which is the correct religion? (Thank you, Kent Brockman!)
 
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I'd like to add 2 things here

1. creativity has absolutely nothing to do with how many surfaces you play .... but ....if play less of them than you are used to you will find out how creative you really are

2. seems most of you are talking about back beat based music.... rock, blues , country or whatever.... which in my opinion is way harder to be "creative" in because in most rock based music your foundation is mapped out for you for the most part

I play a lot of jazz and it is very easy to be creative and explore because you are completely free ... even if you are playing a well known tune or a standard ... no one expects to hear a certain version of Autumn Leaves, or Round Midnight , or Blue Monk... the melody is basically just a check point for the soloists.
with freedom like that your canvas is enormous

on rock or hip hop gigs I play .... my canvas is not nearly as big because more of a foundation is expected of me .
of course I can still branch out and be creative but there is not nearly as much room .

so when you guys are talking about playing "fills" on a smaller kit or re orchestrating your "fills" on a different kit.... I don't think that has anything at all to do with creativity .
that is just you playing what you always play on a different amount of drums .
pretty much the complete opposite of creativity.

my point is

if Larry is playing Red House or Pride and Joy ... how much room does he really have to get "creative" ... he can move around a bit within those confines .... but those confines are definitely there.... it really won't matter if he has 7 toms or 2 ...

what is creativity in a musical sense ? ... using your imagination to orchestrate original ideas .... more or less right ?

so depending on what you are playing creativity may not be called for at all .

someone like Neil Peart plays the same thing every night.... verbatim ... you might as well program the parts and sit backstage and have a beer

someone like Bill Stewart will never play the same thing twice

This needed to be stated in a major way within the context of this thread.

Spot on!

Since 99% of what I play in a band setting is all about creating on the spot each and every time, I really seldom give much thought to this sort of topic. To me... creativity is a fundamental requirement in every sense of the word.
 
I've noticed that my fills on a 4 piece seem to rely less on starting on the high tom and working down to the floor tom. I use the bass drum more in them as well.

Probably not more creative, but I like my playing better.

That being said, if its a cover gig and there some signature fills requiring three toms, I will break it out.
 
A drummer can't play "outward" so much with the restraints of say blues. But a drummer can play "inward" to an infinite degree. It's a completely reverse mindset than say a metal drummer

I'd be lost without the restraints. I sort of count on them. My hat goes off to the free music players.

Re: the underlined part: I'd just add in the context of the music, but that's already implied.

I agree as someone who's played both genres they're quite different as to where your freedom for creativity can be shown. Metal ties your kick down to the rhythmic pulse of the palm mutes on the guitar, where as blues/classic rock is based more on the interaction between bass player and drummer. Though I haven't played Jazz before I can say from watching that it's a whole different ball game. It has interactions that are profoundly different like a big woven web of music, and individual creativity is the name of the game.

Metal is nice since you have freedom to add as many accents and fills as you need to with out being afraid of over playing. You're brought up front with the other instruments and are expected to play fills and grooves that are as complex as the guitarists and bassists are playing. It's always a creative challenge to get everything lined up with oddly timed fills and awkward break down beats. My style of metal is very orchestrated in nature with many parts that never repeat or have no groove and also stop and start where you least expect.

Rock has it's places with creative freedom more so in how you and the bass player, (especially in a three piece) interact. You can really get some fantastic grooves and fills going with a bass player that you sync up with, and it's always a creative challenge to work with the other players to get the feel you want out of the song. The drummer also has a lot more dynamic control in a rock band, to ramp up the energy or bring it down low. Figuring out how to gently or suddenly raise that energy is a creative challenge in it's self too.

Anyway that's a snap shot of where I think some of the creative element lays in each genre. Each kit is sized to let the drummer express what they need and want to, which is why no two drummers kit is exactly the same except by chance.
 
There's no creativity in mastering a set of tools, the creative part is making something unique with the tools. Some use less, some use more. I'm not arguing that a larger kit or a smaller kit is better I'm trying to say that the definition of creativity is being confused with creative focus.

I think this is worth highlighting.

I have a friend who works wood. He has a fully-equipped modern shop. He can turn out furniture with those tools. On the other hand, he has a few antique hand tools with which he can turn out a chair. Which process is more creative? That's entirely subjective.

The point is, he has mastered the tools, both modern and historical. With either, he can look at a piece of wood and imagine, as he puts it, "What the wood wants to be." Then he can crank out something fantabulous. (NB: I really, really want to get him to make me some stave snare shells. He could totally rock that.)

THAT is the key to creativity, IMO. Creativity is doing something new and exciting with the tools you have at hand.

I prefer to create with fewer voices. I tell myself it's because it's more of a challenge, because who doesn't like self-flattery? If I'm honest with myself - and I'm baring my soul here - it's because it's simply less shit to schlep from my house to the gig. I'd rather confront YYZ with a 4-piece kit than drag around an entire Neil Peart setup! Simple as that! :-D

Figures there is a recipe for chile peppers in chocolate cake. You're not helping me lol.

Chili and chocolate is FANTASTIC. There's a guy on this island making gelato he calls "Aztec Chocolate." It's a truly wonderful thing! :D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
True creativity to me happens when you become a conduit and shit just flows out.
In that case, some nice spicy enchiladas can make me extremely creative the next morning. .


You guys crack me up. LOL

About the topic: I think there's several interrelated factors - creativity, spontaneity, and improvisation.

To ask if you're more creative with a smaller kit, you first have to define creative.
It might go something like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity

"...Creativity is a phenomenon whereby something new and valuable is created (such as an idea, a joke, an artistic or literary work, a painting or musical composition, a solution, an invention etc.)..."


Spontaneous
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spontaneous

"...coming or resulting from a natural impulse or tendency; without effort or premeditation; natural and unconstrained; unplanned: ...


Improvisation
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/improvisation

"...the art or act of improvising, or of composing, uttering, executing, or arranging anything without previous preparation..."
(I would substitute 'planning' for 'preparation' when it comes to drumming).



For myself - I am almost never creative when drumming. No matter the kit size.

I can improvise because I've spent countless hours practicing.

But the highest peaks for me in drumming come when I'm spontaneous.

I'm pretty sure this "natural impulse or tendency; without effort or premeditation; natural and unconstrained; unplanned" is what larryace was referring to - LOL
 
so when you guys are talking about playing "fills" on a smaller kit or re orchestrating your "fills" on a different kit.... I don't think that has anything at all to do with creativity .
that is just you playing what you always play on a different amount of drums .
pretty much the complete opposite of creativity.
Exactly my point!

But you see, 99% of the time someone makes this thread, claiming to be "more creative" on a smaller kit, this is all they mean.

I play a lot of jazz and it is very easy to be creative and explore because you are completely free ..
Of course, most of get that, but the average person talking about getting rid of their 9 pc double bass set with 10 cymbals probably wasn't playing much jazz to begin with. lol


someone like Neil Peart plays the same thing every night.... verbatim ... you might as well program the parts and sit backstage and have a beer

I disagree. It should be seen at least once.

The sheer discipline is quite amazing.

Much like a marching band that plays the same routines until they are perfect, and then plays them again and again.

The fact that is doesn't drive him crazy to play the same thing every night is a sight into itself. Because I know it would drive most drummers nutty to have to do that! lol.
 
First of all, I want to reiterate Tony's point that most of the discussion here is centering on backbeat music. I play blues, rock and funk, but I also play improvisational music that requires a more expressive role from the drummer. So I'm writing from the perspective of someone who plays a lot of different kinds of music.

I made the relatively minor switch from a five-piece to a four-piece set, put up fewer cymbals and I liked the way it affected my playing. Here are some examples of what I liked about it:

1) "Auto-pilot" moves don't work anymore. Orchestration around the set has to be reconsidered. I had developed some "go-to" things that no longer worked on the smaller setup. Those of you who have tried it know what I mean.

2) I started finding ways to get more sounds out of fewer voices. If you're just playing the same thing on less surfaces, I think that's a bit of a cop-out. For me, the challenge was to get more sounds out of the choices I had, because I had fewer of them. It drove me to learn some new patterns and new stickings, too.

3) It affected my mindset and drove me to focus less on "the drums" and more on the music. This is purely psychological, but it happened. You can say all you want that if you can't resist hitting things just because they're in front of you, the problem is with you and not the size of your set. But in practice, taking things away drove me to think differently. I got more compliments and phone calls from other musicians. I can't say it was just because of downsizing, because I was practicing and playing more during this time. But this change helped solidify the mindset for me. Maybe it won't have the same effect on you.

4) Less stuff to lug around and tune. This is an issue of pragmatism and I'm not arguing for it from the standpoint of creativity. But I like it.

5) You can always add stuff back in. I still sit behind larger drum sets and enjoy the heck out of them. In my case, I find I'm more thoughtful (admittedly, just my opinion, not something others are telling me) with how I play those extra drums and cymbals.

I don't have any strong feelings about this for anyone else. I, personally, needed it. Maybe you don't. I reserve the right to play a large set again. In fact, I've recently taken up double-pedal and love it.
 
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