Is the push pull technique allowed in the WFD single stroke competitions?

I don't think so. There are no 5 and 6 in the type of time he's talking about. He's talking about 2 and 4 in the "1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a" sense. 4 quarter notes to the bar with the beginning of his stroke on 2 and 4. You're counting the notes being played in the triplet.

You guys are just talking about two different things.

Did you actually watch the video? John Riley starts out the clip by naming the strokes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. He did indeed mean that he throws the stick on the 2nd and the 5th strokes, but he said 2 and 4, probably by force of habit.

EDIT*
I just saw your more recent post, and you may be right.
 
That's not the same thing he's talking about when he says he starts the stroke on 2 and 4. I agree the way he starts out makes it kind of confusing. But I think he's just reverting to music notation terms. In jazz timekeeping, with a triplet feel, the notes are counted:

1 2 and 3 4 and 1, etc.

He's starting the stroke on the 2 and the 4. That's because with that phrasing, the dotted eighth notes with the triplet feel are between 2 and 3 and then 4 and 1.

Don't take my word for it, though; ask around.

haha, i see what you are saying. He doesn't clarify that he is transitioning to the typical musical phrasing of 1 2 and 3 4 and 1, or 1 and a 2 and a 1 and a 2, etc. The only time he counts it he does it straight 1 2 34 5 61 2 34 5 61... either one of us could be right. haha o well
 
Did you actually watch the video? John Riley starts out the clip by naming the strokes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. He did indeed mean that he throws the stick on the 2nd and the 5th strokes, but he said 2 and 4, probably by force of habit.

Yep, I agree, Luke. I think he switched from counting notes played in the pattern to counting the measure. For whatever reason, that seemed obvious to me but given the way he starts explaining the beats, it is kind of confusing. He should have stuck with counting the strokes in the pattern.
 
my main point is I would be whipping mine every other stroke and collecting every other stroke even with alternating accents because each one of my strokes is a conscious wrist stroke. No free, or bouce, stroke in my technique. He couldn't do that on his leg meat.
 
Sorry, guys. I didn't mean to derail the thread with this sidebar. thatoneguy, I totally get what you're saying and why what he says seems off.

Back to the incredible techniques and enough of my blabbering.
 
Sorry, guys. I didn't mean to derail the thread with this sidebar. thatoneguy, I totally get what you're saying and why what he says seems off.

Back to the incredible techniques and enough of my blabbering.

haha your good, man! I sense no bad vibes. haha not yet anyway. I'd love to hear Bernhard's response to my Video response for him! Come on Bernhard, I know you watched it, buddy!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elkx_Vm9Oiw

Bernhard, please watch! I hope this helps and I was happy to make it!


What I ment earlier when I said that your technique could double a drummers bpm is theoretically ever how fast you can throw your arm down repeatedly is doubled because of the inclusion of the upstroke between. So if you can sit there only using both elbow joints to move each whole arm and you can tap out 800 in one minute (which isn't hard) then when you include the upstroke thats 1600 strokes.


Interesting stuff no doubt!
 
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Zac, other than soloing, do you use your singles technique during the course of your regular drumset playing?

Hey Larry,

I don't want to toot my own horn in this thread, but if you check out this song by my ex-band:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TZKFoG8kg&feature=related

I use Zacs exact right hand technique (push-pull) to play 16th note shuffle on the HiHat. The tempo is around 110bpm which is not too fast yet, but on stage we usually played that song at around 120bpm.

It was always kinda funny to play that song on stage because it was the last song and I could always spot at least one drummer in the audience trying to keep time with me on his leg with the "how the hell is that guy doing it???" expression in his face. I am really really far from being a speed demon, but I use this technique to play 16th funk or Bossa Nova pretty relaxed at tempos up to 120-125 bpm. To get it up to what Zac is doing (160 bpm) I would probably have to work for years because I can only do it with my right hand and not alternating. These would be two major problems with this. Another benefit of this is that you can do this on no-rebound surfaces too.

I started practising this back in 2000 at LAMA where a guy named Paul Kaiser showed it to me (who got it from the JoJo Mayer 1998 video which he had as VHS.... those were the days I guess :) ). Ralph Humphrey was explaining this technique at LAMA back at that time too, so it's not exactly new and I don't quite get why nobody used it in WFD sooner than this.

Check out these videos, some of them are years and years old:

Gordy Knutsen was the first to have video explaining the concept:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPSeQ2PgOsY&feature=related


Jeff Peterson (a student of Gordy) posted this video a few years back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_QOSvJJSo&feature=related

Then followed Raul Valdes who can do some really nasty stuff with this....:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhlqBm7EAd0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGahEd_zaf8&feature=related
 
Haha I Just replied and then I saw this. My bad. Did you get my response? I hope that is somewhat insightful. I will definitely make a video here soon. I owe it all to multple people. Boo McAfee, Johnny Rabb, Mike Mangini, Jojo Mayer, Kenwood Dennard, Dom Famularo, Kenny Aronoff, Buddy Rich. WIthout either one of those men I wouldn't be doing what i'm doing.
 
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