DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Technique

Drum Technique Tips - Tricks - Practice - Rudiments - Educational DVDs & Books.....

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-08-2013, 06:29 PM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Shuffling knuckles

Tried to resurrect an old thread to no avail..

I rest my stick between my thumb and 2nd index finger joint (middle of the finger). Someone has convinced me to change that to the first joint (tip of finger).

Has anyone made this transition? Is it very hard to do? Is it a good/bad idea?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-08-2013, 06:50 PM
Coldhardsteel's Avatar
Coldhardsteel Coldhardsteel is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maryland, United states of America
Posts: 1,228
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

A lot of conventional wisdom I've been taught tells me to rest it in the first joint, but mostly when I play it rest slightly higher, more between the first and second joints on the second segment. I can't imagine a huge difference in playing between the two methods, but maybe the first-joint technique has popularity at its back.
__________________
"At the end of the day you just draw pretty pictures on a field and play some rimp ska dimps."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-08-2013, 06:52 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 13,771
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

As long as most of the stick is off the palm of your hand, that's the important thing IMO. I do subscribe to the notion that the further up your finger you can control the stick from, the more nimble your touch. So when I practice form, I use the top knuckle. But when I'm gigging, the stick usually ends up on the 2nd knuckle.
__________________
Great art is born out of great pain.

Gomez Addams
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-08-2013, 09:13 PM
Brian Brian is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 720
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

It's a great idea and it's not too hard, especially if you already have solid technique the other way.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-09-2013, 03:30 AM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

My friend showed me how the stick stays with your fingers much better using this grip. I practice technique pretty often but do notice that things get a bit 'flappy' when I play at speed and the stick is constantly coming away from my fingers... and you can imagine having almost no control if you just held the stick in your webbing.. so it makes sense.

I have tried this grip on the kit but my hands just don't want to keep it there. I can see this is something I'll have to train pretty hard for on the pad. Hoping I can make the transition..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-09-2013, 04:48 AM
RinkRat's Avatar
RinkRat RinkRat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pennsylvania 6-5000
Posts: 72
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

I guess I must put the death grip on the sticks. Been trying to keep them on the 1st knuckle, but that lasts about 1-2 strokes. Then, I either launch the stick, or it floats back to the 2nd knuckle.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-09-2013, 09:04 PM
moxman moxman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 247
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

Generally the 2nd finger, 2nd knuckle fulcrum is great for getting better range of motion and keeping the stick balanced in your palm. The 1st finger, 1st knuckle is pretty old school.. which is the way a lot of drummers (myself included) learned to play. Over several years I switched to the 2nd finger..and glad I did! The hardest part was playing smooth buzz rolls with the 2nd finger after so many years of perfecting that stroke with my 1st.. but I do still lean on my 1st finger for the buzz roll.

I'm sure some would consider the 2nd finger fulcrum 'old school' as well - as it's been around for a very long time. There's also the 4th finger fulcrum for added 'whack'. but I find it impractical (and requires earplugs!).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-09-2013, 09:37 PM
cornelius cornelius is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 633
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

The difference between first joint and second is pretty subtle. Generally, the change comes about naturally - for subtle stuff, first joint - for volume, second...

If your old way is working, then you should be ok! Is there a reason why you want to switch?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:04 AM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

I'm mostly doing it on someone's advice. But to me it feels worlds apart.

Yesterday I dived in...On the kit it's nice 'cos your hand is relaxed when rimshotting the backbeat for example, your fulcrum is really open. B on the pad you notice it hampers rebound and then of course it's a bit frustrating when you suddenly can't do your more complex stuff.

Buzz rolls/drags are seemingly impossible.

Will have to let myself crawl for a while if this is going to work..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-11-2013, 02:23 PM
DustinB DustinB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 75
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

I've always rested it on the 2nd mostly as well. But thinking about it right now...because my control isn't always 100% (lots of excuses for this of course), I have days where I just seem to have complete control of the stick, and during those times I feel like I am using absolutely no effort and it's almost massaging my hands (arthritis, so the vibration kind of feels good haha :) ), but I play with fingertips mostly during that time (from what my memory serves me)

About your drags, do you play full strokes for your doubles? I know learning to not "press", especially at slower tempos, has really helped me gain more control over my playing, and it feels better actually. It was a huge learning curve for me, sitting there "But i can just put pressure and it bounces twice, why would i bother?" Anyways after beginning my journey with the drum ritual from Alan Dawson, as well as trying to learn some drum line practices/songs, and I actually just seen a video from Dave Weckl talking about actually playing 2 full strokes for his doubles, I stuck with it so far, and I've enjoyed it a lot. It took a lot of practice to get it comfortable and it is becoming more natural for me, but it's REALLY cleaned up my playing.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-11-2013, 03:00 PM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

I was referring to the press rolls, and yeah I could play half decent doubles until yesterday when I took on this new grip.. Now I suck again but I think if I have patience I should be back on track in a month or so. Today was quite depressing actually lol.

Rinkrat - sorry I missed your post - but if you want to try this grip you need to have your thumb opposite your first knuckle as though there's an axle running between them, and the stick should rotate on that axis. My first mistake was resting my thumb too far back.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-14-2013, 04:37 AM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

I found a name for this - open German grip and my old method was closed German grip...

5 days in and I'm feeling alright. I was kinda worried and thought I'd be learning to play drums all over again but I decided not to let it intimidate me and just keep playing what I play, so long as I can stay in form. Last night I went through my independence routine and dropped 15bpm off and I was fine... it's a good opportunity to go and practice everything really slowly when I think about it.

It feels really strange but I have to admit I notice that I've got better control with my left hand when I'm alternating between ghost notes and accents.

Hoping this is the right move...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-14-2013, 04:54 AM
gretsch-o-rama's Avatar
gretsch-o-rama gretsch-o-rama is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Hornell, NY
Posts: 307
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

Im sorry. Im confused. Are we talking left hand trad or something else? Guess I missed it...
__________________
Practice smarter. Not harder.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-16-2013, 02:36 AM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI3ajQuyBEE

Skip to the part where he starts talking about german (matched) grip. Open vs closed is what I refer to.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-28-2013, 08:27 AM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

I don't know if this thread has helped/taught anyone anything but I discovered something else - I need to have the stick running right down the centre of my hand, as in the butt of the stick needs to be right on the fold in the centre of your palm.

My left stick was a bit aimless until I fixed this.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-19-2013, 06:26 PM
Dre25's Avatar
Dre25 Dre25 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,251
Default Re: Shuffling knuckles

It's been a month and 10 days and I'm really happy with my new grip. It has a lot more control and the best thing about it for me is it's easier to get a nice straight up/down motion without random lateral movement of the stick. I just make sure my palms are down and the butt of the stick is in the middle crease of my hand.

Ghost notes used to involve dropping the stick from low heights but now I can make small wrist or finger movements and play with less volume and more accuracy. Revisiting Gavin Harrison's DVD's I can see he uses this grip too, it has been good to watch him while I've been making sense of this.

Speed has almost fully returned, not getting as much volume as I was before but I know it will come.

That's my last post. I recommend you persevere with this if you play closed German grip.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
please do not take this advice for it is among the worst given
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com