"Oh no - Not another new bearing edge!"

Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

KamaK said:
I assume you've already tried a mixed edge setup.. What were the results?
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Mixed edge setups have been the primary R&D mules. It's how we'll be applying this technology, not as offered in this video. The results are nothing short of a revelation in combination with a highly resonant drum.

KamaK said:
The cut looks like a 3 stage (2 outer and one inner). Have you machined a custom router bit that allows you to cut the outer edge with a single pass yet?
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Tooling is already in place, & surprisingly simple.

The diagram I used is a representation of the principal, not the actual form we're using. It's up to others to work out how best to apply it to their own particular applications. The main aim of this video is to show what is possible, not necessarily what's appropriate.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

I think this is huge. There are not many new things that actually change things. RIMS mounts were the last real innovation I've witnessed. Maybe double pedals. But this is the Holy Grail, note sustain. Most people confuse resonance with sustain anyway. I really go for sustain. If I had to pick resonant or sustain, I think I'd go sustain.

I so want to hear this on walnut.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

larryace said:
I think this is huge. There are not many new things that actually change things. RIMS mounts were the last real innovation I've witnessed. Maybe double pedals. But this is the Holy Grail, note sustain. Most people confuse resonance with sustain anyway. I really go for sustain. If I had to pick resonant or sustain, I think I'd go sustain.

I so want to hear this on walnut.
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Oh sustain yourself already Larry.

And do you 'really' want this edge profile (isn't what you have good enough), or are you just looking to impress your drummer guy friends, and get all the women cuz you'd have the hottest sounding drums?
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

Les Ismore said:
Oh sustain yourself already Larry.

And do you 'really' want this edge profile (isn't what you have good enough), or are you just looking to impress your drummer guy friends, and get all the women cuz you'd have the hottest sounding drums?
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Sir, you've cut me to the quick.

Yes, yes, and yes.
 
Re: Oh no! Not another new bearing edge :(

GRUNTERSDAD said:
I find this fantastic but can see people now, not real drummers, slapping on the moon gel to shorten the resonance.
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You can shorten sustain of any drum. But not every drum can sing.

I think as I've gotten older I've realized I want my drums to sing. Afterwards I can put on gel, gaffer tape, rags, wallet, etc to get any other sustain or resonance out of it I want on a whim. Makes the drums much more versatile in my opinion.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

That's my big complaint with playing other drummers kits, the drums are dead dead dead. Zero sustain.

Playing a kit that has nice long full sustain makes it easier for tom fills to really shine.

As opposed to the dead splat thud dieoff that basically makes it impossible to really replicate what I'm hearing in my head.

Dead splat is exact opposite of what I'm after. Couple nice long rich sustain with the richness...the thunder of walnut....that's where I'm headed next.

It's my destiny lol.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

Andy, I'm totally ignorant of patent law, but what is to stop someone else from patenting this if you choose not to?
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

Andy that was a great presentation and an almost unbeleivable result on the drum.
I will be looking forward to hearing this on a kit.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

Brilliant work, Andy. Amazing.
I'll remember 'where I was' in the future when referencing back to when Guru invented the Guru Tympanic Edge.
The GTE Bearing Edge.
No...c'mon guys, let's get an acronym for this!!

Neal
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

Admit it Andy. You stumbled across this design when you accidentally cut too deep with your 3/16" round over bit. :)

Anyway, I'm curious to hear with the same recording equipment the difference between this edge and a standard roundover with the truncated inner cut. To a drum builder, I'm sure you notice the change as something dramatic, but to the casual listener, would they say its not as drastic as you see it?

Either way, this looks like a nice and new idea. I'm very surprised you haven't at least put in paperwork to trademark the design. I know that's not something you believe in, but we all know that some big company will come along and patent it. They will somehow force you to take your video down and then make money off your design. Considering the competition in the music world and trying to stand out above the rest, some sleazy company will steal your work and make it their own. I hate to see the day come, but its coming.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

I am curious what the movers and shakers at ALL the big companies are going to do with this information.

I would love to be at every meeting where this info is first shown to the decision makers.

Andy, what do you predict the general reaction of this will be from the majors?

I like the full name, the Guru Tympanic Edge. It really distinguishes it from any other bearing edge. I mean, it's the first actual edge profile with a real name. Plus you want the name to be out there, not just a "G" in an acronym. The full name is classy. Brilliant compensation plan too. Why patent it and go broke defending the patent? Industry buzz is like gold.

The results just blow me away.

Andy, my plan is to sell off every unneeded drumset I have so you can build me a set of walnuts with this edge. And I thought I was done buying drums. This changes everything.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

larryace said:
Why patent it and go broke defending the patent?
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Or you don't patent it and someone steals it, patents it themselves, and you go broke trying to sue the major corporation who stole the idea from you. Meanwhile, they make money and you go broke. At least with the patent you own it. Ideas will always get stolen, especially with companies in China (who you really can't sue because they don't care), but actual companies who do respect patent law wont steal your idea and call it theirs.

Again, I know this isn't Andy's philosophy about building drums (patents and trademarks and all that crap), but you know this idea will be stolen by a major player in the game and they will be too big to sue.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

But Andy would be protected under "prior art" described below.

What I think will happen is that companies won't honor Andy's request, and they will call it whatever they want and pretend they did the innovation. After all, there is nothing legally binding making them refer to it as the Guru Tympanic Edge.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

larryace said:
I am curious what the movers and shakers at ALL the big companies are going to do with this information.
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My gut feeling is they'll do absolutely nothing with it, or they'll use it, but make some change they can then claim as their own. Of course, I could be completely wide of the mark, but isn't that the fun of the ride?

As a general observation, particularly in the USA it would seem, you can get away with patenting almost anything, even with wide acceptance of prior knowledge / art. There's certainly some brazen examples of that practice. I'm thinking of patenting the wheel in America, & I reckon I stand a fair chance, lol!

larryace said:
Andy, my plan is to sell off every unneeded drumset I have so you can build me a set of walnuts with this edge.
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Larry, we'll PM, but I cannot tell you enough how bad an idea I think that is. This edge is a mini game changer in terms of instrument response choice, but it's only a small part of what should be a total design concept. Using this edge for both batter & resonant sides, especially in it's longest head note form, brings about negatives to the party. If I was to choose one term to describe how this edge should be applied, it's "balance".

Tommy_D said:
Ideas will always get stolen
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Exactly, so why not pre-empt the inevitable & simply seek to gain some organic marketing exposure by default? :)

Tommy_D said:
Considering the competition in the music world and trying to stand out above the rest, some sleazy company will steal your work and make it their own. I hate to see the day come, but its coming.
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You may well be right, but I'm hoping that anyone seeking to use this technology reaches out to us, or at least, mentions us in their marketing. As we've asked that we're mentioned in any use, any company not doing so would lay bare their lack of moral compass. They may or may not care about that, but it would certainly be an eye opener for the rest of us ;)

vitaflo said:
Makes the drums much more versatile in my opinion.
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Exactly - it offers choices, both to the drum designer & the player. The skill is in how this edge is applied within an overall concept. Due diligence in R&D is strongly advised.

jornthedrummer said:
Andy that was a great presentation and an almost unbeleivable result on the drum.
I will be looking forward to hearing this on a kit.
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Thank you :)

evilg99 said:
I'll remember 'where I was' in the future when referencing back to when Guru invented the Guru Tympanic Edge.
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Thanks Neal, although I suspect most will seek to ignore it & hope it goes away.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

Can you do fancy things, like incrementally feather the cut between the two edges to make the gap intermittent (like a mastersound hat) to blend in the characteristics of a rounded and GT edge?
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

KamaK said:
Can you do fancy things, like incrementally feather the cut between the two edges to make the gap intermittent (like a mastersound hat) to blend in the characteristics of a rounded and GT edge?
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That's all possible, but increased machining difficulty, & TBH, I doubt it's effectiveness. There are many other variations on the design that can alter the resulting instrument characteristics. It's a new way of thinking about edge design, & introduces hybrid edge possibilities not previously available. Our best R&D results have been obtained with the new edge used only on the resonant side. Again, balance is a key word in the application of this edge :)

I must reinforce the context in which we place this edge. It's a powerful little tool, but in itself, it's only a very small part of an overall design. Good results are dependant on good totality of design, materials, & execution. The affect of applying this edge to a poorly designed drum is a poorly performing drum. That truth will never change.
 
Re: Oh No, Not another Bearing Edge.

Tommy_D said:
Or you don't patent it and someone steals it, patents it themselves, and you go broke trying to sue the major corporation who stole the idea from you. Meanwhile, they make money and you go broke. At least with the patent you own it. Ideas will always get stolen, especially with companies in China (who you really can't sue because they don't care), but actual companies who do respect patent law wont steal your idea and call it theirs.

Again, I know this isn't Andy's philosophy about building drums (patents and trademarks and all that crap), but you know this idea will be stolen by a major player in the game and they will be too big to sue.
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I agree with this. I'd patent it. The YouTube video means nothing in a lot of countries as far as laying claim to having invented this edge. One of the Asian manufacturers may very well take this design, lay claim to it and Guru may well find itself on the receiving end of a lawsuit whereby the theif forces Guru to cease manufacturing with their patented design.

You should patent it not only for credit, but to protect your ability to manufacture with this edge in the future. It's a small price to pay to protect your business.
 
Or you patent it to protect your own company's name. Think about this scenario. Say a big company does respect your wishes and uses this edge calling it the "Guru Tympanic Edge". That company charges a significant upcharge, or only offers this edge on their highest end drums, because its a complex design that takes considerably more time to cut. The consumer buys in to whatever crazy marketing jargon the big company is spitting out because lets face it, marketing can some times work. But just like Andy mentioned previously, the edge is just one piece to the puzzle. Simply adding it to any shell wont mean you the the same results as Guru has. Now the consumer has purchased this super expensive kit thinking they are getting a Guru Drums sound, but in fact they are disappointed because the major company didnt think about changing the shell design, or hardware mass, etc. to maximize the sonic potential of this edge. So now the consumer is pissed that they spent all this money to get this new edge and their word begins to spread like wildfire because, hey its the internet and bad news always spreads easier than good. The Guru Tympanic Edge begins to get unfavorable reviews, and ultimately Guru Drums begins looking like some stupid company who doesnt know what they are doing. Its not Guru's fault that the big company didnt think to specialize their shell design to best suit this edge, but ultimately Guru may take the brunt of the blame for it.
 
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