Elementary jazz question about accenting on the ride

sciomako

Silver Member
Hi all,

In rock music, when we crash the crash cymbal, 90% of the time we back it up with the bass drum, to give it a punchy bottom end.

In jazz, say I lay into the ride to accent the skip beat right before the "1", do we usual back it up with the bass drum?
 
It depends entirely on the music that you are comping.
As a rule I don't do things like that. I let the cymbal sing and then hit the one with the BD. There are times when you are doing what is known as "dropping a bomb". that is when you back up a snare or cymbal hit with a hard off beat BD hit.

It is often important to accent the 1 with the BD to help the others stay in time. It is easy to confuse the other players by backing up a cymbal accent with a bass drum hit that is not on a downbeat. Again, there are exceptions.
You also want to avoid playing the snare on the 1 most of the time. That can also confuse the other players.
 
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It is often important to accent the 1 with the BD to help the others stay in time. It is easy to confuse the other players by backing up a cymbal accent with a bass drum hit that is not on a downbeat. Again, there are exceptions.
You also want to avoid playing the snare on the 1 most of the time. That can also confuse the other players.

This is interesting. Various drummers have commented the "1" is not emphasized in jazz. The skip beat before the "1" is usually accented instead.

I understand there is no rules in jazz. (Actually, there is no rules in music. :)) I'm talking about is what is common in jazz idioms. Being a beginner, I need the rules (the training wheels) before I can break the rules.
 
This is interesting. Various drummers have commented the "1" is not emphasized in jazz. The skip beat before the "1" is usually accented instead.

I understand there is no rules in jazz. (Actually, there is no rules in music. :)) I'm talking about is what is common in jazz idioms. Being a beginner, I need the rules (the training wheels) before I can break the rules.


listen to the music and you will find the answers to every question you will ever have

as long as you speak and understand the language there are absolutely zero rules
 
It's equally likely that an accented ride cymbal note will be played along with the bass drum, or the snare drum, or by itself. The accent is simply meant to add meaning and purpose to a particular beat. If it needs lots of "oomph", then sure, a bass drum will do nicely, but if only a bit of added weight is desired, then perhaps nothing should be added to the cymbal note. Remember, an upright bass is quiet, and a loud crash with a bass drum will drown it out completely. In rock, yes, the bass drum accompanies a "crash" most of the time, in order to really make that particular beat stand out in the music. Jazz is more subtle and sophisticated, and doesn't require such an obvious "rule". How and when you accent certain beats depends on the song, the instrumentation of the other players, and the intensity of the band in that particular moment.

Here's Blakey doing just what you're asking about. The question you should be asking is: why did Blakey play that right at that moment and not at some other moment?
 
Usually I'll play the bass drum or snare when accenting on the cymbal, as long as we're not just talking about accents within your ride pattern-- you mean a bigger, phrase-marking punctuation, right? It's kind of a special occasion when I crash a cymbal by itself-- you can do whatever you want, just be aware of the effect you're creating by doing it.
 
I compare a jazz ride beat to tapping your fingers along with the music and sometimes just laying the stick shoulder into the edge a little to accent --without any snare or bass note. When I started learning more jazz technique, I had to unlearn my rock tendencies of bass drum accenting on crashes. Now like someone said, they are reserved for punctuating a phrase, sometimes before a rest, or tempo shift. Depends on the song, depends on the tempo.
 
Rule number one of jazz club is "you do not talk about jazz club".

Yup, And don't forget - the second rule of Jazz Club is: you DO NOT talk about Jazz Club!

Sorry I needed to throw that in there. Great flick
 
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This is an interesting question: I was always taught that you really do not want any patterns when playing (jazz). You can accent the and of 4, but you shouldn't do it every time, and it depends on the song, and what the other players are doing.

Jazz isn't like other styles, you don't have to hit any beats at all, you're more free to join in the conversation with the other players. (Just make sure you are joining in with the other players and not just playing fills on top of everyone.)

If you're dropping a bomb, just make sure it really goes with the rest of the song. Same goes for cymbal accents; make sure it's actually accenting what the other players are playing, otherwise it will sound like it doesn't have any relation to the song.
 
listen to the music and you will find the answers to every question you will ever have

as long as you speak and understand the language there are absolutely zero rules

This a million times over!

Jazz has absolutely nothing to do with patterns/parts that are repetitive or written in stone. It's against the very nature of the root of the music which is improvisational based.

You are not going (or need to find different players) if you have to be specific on certain beats of any measure. No more than would you need to say any specific word in any verbal conversation with another person. The conversation flows naturally with the vocabulary you have developed within the spoken language. With jazz, the dialog occurs within the musical vocabulary you have built within the framework of the style.

True -certain periods of jazz emphasized certain beats a little more / differently than other periods but they were never restricted in their entirety by the need to accent any one thing as a "norm".

Listen to the origins and development of the music and meaning will be clear.

Just my .02
 
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