played (maybe joined) in blues band
- Thread starter opentune
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Mikeyboyeee
Senior Member
Mike can you elaborate on your descriptions of west side (coast?) vs east side?[/QUOTE said:
opentune
Platinum Member
very good point.
my ad gave full disclosure, and when i met the 'blues guys', before we even sat through a song, we talked about expectations for time, commitment and everything...all the background stuff. i'm very honest and upfront about my time in bands, as that *'expectation* commonly causes friction later on. its talked about on here a lot.
i also mentioned why i was looking for another band, as the one i'm in simply isn't rehearsing enough (at least the past months) for my tastes. so there was some dissatisfaction there. my opinion is you have to seek out what you need, not just sit in a band, begrudging with this or that, and try to change everybody's ways (or time) to go along with yours.
seek and you shall find was the motto.
opentune
Platinum Member
Interesting variations, I kinda get what you mean by the 'stomp' but a couple song examples might help put words to styles.
very good point.
my ad gave full disclosure, and when i met the 'blues guys', before we even sat through a song, we talked about expectations for time, commitment and everything...all the background stuff. i'm very honest and upfront about my time in bands, as that *'expectation* commonly causes friction later on. its talked about on here a lot.
i also mentioned why i was looking for another band, as the one i'm in simply isn't rehearsing enough (at least the past months) for my tastes. so there was some dissatisfaction there. my opinion is you have to seek out what you need, not just sit in a band, begrudging with this or that, and try to change everybody's ways (or time) to go along with yours.
seek and you shall find was the motto.
Sounds fair and reasonable. . Apologies for asking but without the full story it sounded a bit odd to me. If you are still dissatisfied with your current band could this one be a goer?
opentune
Platinum Member
No apology needed, its an obvious question.
Well, dunno, maybe just try to stay in both bands. The classic rock band needs to rehearse way more, tighten up, but I seem to be the only one who sees it that way. They seem fine muddling on with ill-defined starts and endings, lol.
Well, dunno, maybe just try to stay in both bands. The classic rock band needs to rehearse way more, tighten up, but I seem to be the only one who sees it that way. They seem fine muddling on with ill-defined starts and endings, lol.
pinoydrummer
Senior Member
All this talk makes me want to form a blues band. hehehe.
I play along to some blues tracks but I just wanna ask what are the
songs that you would recommend if someone really wants to learn how to
shuffle?
I play along to some blues tracks but I just wanna ask what are the
songs that you would recommend if someone really wants to learn how to
shuffle?
Aeolian
Platinum Member
The ZZ Top bass drum shuffle is a sure was to be branded as a rock drummer in a blues situation. Use it and things like the Roseanna shuffle very sparingly.
Best thing I learned was to really emphasize the back beat. Kick is 4 on the floor but the 1 and 3 are lighter while the 2 and 4 stomp down like Bootsy on the 1. Sometimes on fast things when it's really cooking I can lean out to just hitting backbeats with everything at the same time. It's amazing how much drive, groove and swing you can get with this. Maybe just ghosting the 1 and 3 on the kick and coming down with everything on the backbeat.
Swing can be ONE two THREE four, or one TWO three FOUR. Even if you really lay on the one in the first, it tends to lay back overall with the band. More of a jazz swing kind of feel. Whereas the 2nd emphasis will really raise the energy level and is what the driving blues drummers from Sam Lay to June Core do.
Something I learned from playing blues guitar (also a big fan of Robben Ford and have taken clinics from him even played together at one) is that the faster the song, the less you play. The slower the song, the more you can drop in the spice (tastefully I hope). But uptempo is all about the energy and drive. Which comes from the phrasing and groove. Very few people can keep up the groove and swing playing really fast. And kept up too long it turns into a stream of noise that goes in one ear and out the other.
Best thing I learned was to really emphasize the back beat. Kick is 4 on the floor but the 1 and 3 are lighter while the 2 and 4 stomp down like Bootsy on the 1. Sometimes on fast things when it's really cooking I can lean out to just hitting backbeats with everything at the same time. It's amazing how much drive, groove and swing you can get with this. Maybe just ghosting the 1 and 3 on the kick and coming down with everything on the backbeat.
Swing can be ONE two THREE four, or one TWO three FOUR. Even if you really lay on the one in the first, it tends to lay back overall with the band. More of a jazz swing kind of feel. Whereas the 2nd emphasis will really raise the energy level and is what the driving blues drummers from Sam Lay to June Core do.
Something I learned from playing blues guitar (also a big fan of Robben Ford and have taken clinics from him even played together at one) is that the faster the song, the less you play. The slower the song, the more you can drop in the spice (tastefully I hope). But uptempo is all about the energy and drive. Which comes from the phrasing and groove. Very few people can keep up the groove and swing playing really fast. And kept up too long it turns into a stream of noise that goes in one ear and out the other.
Argh......my personal nightmare. If a band cant at least start and finish a song at the same time it is beyond irritating. A song is not nailed till the ending is agreed. Or is that just a drummer talking?
opentune
Platinum Member
There are many shuffles, an entire lexicon depending on who you speak to. I'm no expert. Many experts on here so hope Larry and others weigh in.
For years I struggled with the shuffle but got over the hump and got started using these tunes (maybe wrongly, lol)
Black Friday, Steely Dan
Further on Up The Road
Stevie Ray Vaughn, Cold shot (Texas shuffle).
Chuck Berry, Riding along in My Automobile (Fat tire shuffle).
Larry
"Uncle Larry"
Re: what songs to listen to...
The thing is, a shuffle is very personal, meaning different players make it feel slightly different. I feel it's best to listen to as much blues as you can to absorb the sensibilities of many different players. I wish I was that organized where I could say, listen to this and that. But I liked blues music more than blues drumming. A subscription to satellite radio is a great bargain for musical education. Just listen to as much blues as you can, old and new. What excites me may not necessarily excite you.
The one thing I think separates the effective players from the rest is the sheer love of the music. If you don't really genuinely love it, and try to understand it, the guy who does stands a better chance, IMO.
The older blues, say 1940 to 1970....the drumming is more "old fashioned" compared to the generations that came later. Exceptions certainly apply, but generally speaking, the drumming on older stuff is not like the newer stuff. So there's older and more modern blues. When I was listening to blues really heavily, TBH, it wasn't the drums I was homing in on, it was everything but. I always thought the drumming could better compliment the music. (bad tuning, not particularly exciting, but workable, in my sheltered opinion back then) I especially got hooked on the bluesy rhythm chords. Love blues chords. But the drumming on the older stuff....not particularly exciting IMO. It definitely worked, but it wasn't over the top like the rock stuff I was raised on. In my arrogance I actually thought I could bring something to the table, because of the sheer love I have for this music.
Cast your net wide and start absorbing. It's better when you discover for yourself what trips your trap and what doesn't. For instance I love country blues, but there's no drums. But that's where it all started in America, so it fascinates the pants off me. Charley Patton was the baddest mother out there, even by today's standards. He had the key to the treasure chest of musical richness.
Blues drumming isn't about the drumming. It's about everything else. The story, the emotion being conveyed, the singer, and the understanding of what blues music actually is and where it came from. It's a really great story how the blues came to America and thrived here. So don't focus on the drums so much as trying to get a feel for the BIG picture and try to understand the larger scope, don't go all microscopic on the drum part. It's a small but essential part of the whole pie.
Feeling trumps everything in blues. When I first started playing it after 20 years of listening to it....I was still a rock player. So I played more outwardly, trying to impress. Of course that wasn't effective, and it took me some time, and a lot of recording and listening back, before I got to the point where the dots started to connect, and I realized that impressing everyone with volume and trying too hard was bad, and relaxing and playing with headroom....freed up a portion of my mind that was all bunged up. Once you become comfortable with musical time, and the realization that you don't need to impress anyone and fill space all over....that's when you start to play the style effectively. And it just builds from there almost magically. But first you have to "get it". Listening to it for 20 years was great, but I really had to go and fall on my face at open mic jams for about 4 years before the lightbulb went on.
It's like forget everything you thought was right and do the opposite.
The thing is, a shuffle is very personal, meaning different players make it feel slightly different. I feel it's best to listen to as much blues as you can to absorb the sensibilities of many different players. I wish I was that organized where I could say, listen to this and that. But I liked blues music more than blues drumming. A subscription to satellite radio is a great bargain for musical education. Just listen to as much blues as you can, old and new. What excites me may not necessarily excite you.
The one thing I think separates the effective players from the rest is the sheer love of the music. If you don't really genuinely love it, and try to understand it, the guy who does stands a better chance, IMO.
The older blues, say 1940 to 1970....the drumming is more "old fashioned" compared to the generations that came later. Exceptions certainly apply, but generally speaking, the drumming on older stuff is not like the newer stuff. So there's older and more modern blues. When I was listening to blues really heavily, TBH, it wasn't the drums I was homing in on, it was everything but. I always thought the drumming could better compliment the music. (bad tuning, not particularly exciting, but workable, in my sheltered opinion back then) I especially got hooked on the bluesy rhythm chords. Love blues chords. But the drumming on the older stuff....not particularly exciting IMO. It definitely worked, but it wasn't over the top like the rock stuff I was raised on. In my arrogance I actually thought I could bring something to the table, because of the sheer love I have for this music.
Cast your net wide and start absorbing. It's better when you discover for yourself what trips your trap and what doesn't. For instance I love country blues, but there's no drums. But that's where it all started in America, so it fascinates the pants off me. Charley Patton was the baddest mother out there, even by today's standards. He had the key to the treasure chest of musical richness.
Blues drumming isn't about the drumming. It's about everything else. The story, the emotion being conveyed, the singer, and the understanding of what blues music actually is and where it came from. It's a really great story how the blues came to America and thrived here. So don't focus on the drums so much as trying to get a feel for the BIG picture and try to understand the larger scope, don't go all microscopic on the drum part. It's a small but essential part of the whole pie.
Feeling trumps everything in blues. When I first started playing it after 20 years of listening to it....I was still a rock player. So I played more outwardly, trying to impress. Of course that wasn't effective, and it took me some time, and a lot of recording and listening back, before I got to the point where the dots started to connect, and I realized that impressing everyone with volume and trying too hard was bad, and relaxing and playing with headroom....freed up a portion of my mind that was all bunged up. Once you become comfortable with musical time, and the realization that you don't need to impress anyone and fill space all over....that's when you start to play the style effectively. And it just builds from there almost magically. But first you have to "get it". Listening to it for 20 years was great, but I really had to go and fall on my face at open mic jams for about 4 years before the lightbulb went on.
It's like forget everything you thought was right and do the opposite.
brady
Platinum Member
I would say that if you are wanting to get off in to the blues, just forget the Steely Dan, Porcaro shuffle, and the rock guy playing the shuffle on the bass drum thing, and other stuff like that.
Check out some Muddy Waters, Jimmy Rogers, BB King, Freddie King, Howlin' Wolf, Little Walter, Albert Collins, etc.
Anything with Fred Below, SP Leary, Francis Clay, Sam Lay or Chris Layton will show you how to play a "proper" blues shuffle.
Mikeyboyeee
Senior Member
Per at least one request:
Here's a pretty good examples of what I've always called a west side/coast shuffle:
Magic Slim - Early Every Morning
http://youtu.be/Ht4CbFRQZA4
Jimmy Reed - Baby What you Want Me to do
http://youtu.be/CvbFTLZOO4Q
kind of 'loping' feel -- rather than a hard driving thing
In contrast a hard-driving shuffle, Johnny Winter's Highway 61:
http://youtu.be/r9j25V4iw94
SRV and Chris Layton are a master class in Texas shuffles
Here's a pretty good examples of what I've always called a west side/coast shuffle:
Magic Slim - Early Every Morning
http://youtu.be/Ht4CbFRQZA4
Jimmy Reed - Baby What you Want Me to do
http://youtu.be/CvbFTLZOO4Q
kind of 'loping' feel -- rather than a hard driving thing
In contrast a hard-driving shuffle, Johnny Winter's Highway 61:
http://youtu.be/r9j25V4iw94
SRV and Chris Layton are a master class in Texas shuffles
I think you mean the 'Flat tire shuffle'
Also nothing wrong with Further on up the Road.. Levon Helm plays a mean shuffle on that one.. while singing the lead vocal as well!
Midnite Zephyr
Platinum Member
Yeah, the fat tire shuffle is that walk you take to the cab after drinking too much of that ale at the pub.
pinoydrummer
Senior Member
Awesome! Thank you for the song recommendations and for sharing your thoughts
with regards to playing blues.
To Larry, I love you bro!
with regards to playing blues.
To Larry, I love you bro!
opentune
Platinum Member
opentune
Platinum Member
Greta thanks. Nothing like hearing the differences. Words don't do it sometimes.
And Fred Below. Ya he's the man! really liked those youtubes somebody put up on here a week ago of a blues show in the early 60's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZMoikK3ct8&feature=youtu.be&t=53m37s
newoldie
Silver Member
My situation is almost identical to Louis's, being with a rock cover band that can't start or finish a song correctly. I'm forming a blues oriented trio, or at least trying to do so.
Agree with Mox: One of my main songs for studying as of late has been "Further On Up The Road," played by The Band on The Last Waltz with Eric Clapton (you can watch Levon play with some good camera angles),http://youtu.be/91Eg95vF72k
and Clapton's live version http://youtu.be/GmS6aaVHr1A.
Comparing the drumming shows slightly different versions in the bass drum beat and fills sounds. Both sound like gold so I've tried to absorb them as much as possible.