What are your Drumming Prejudices?

I think my biggest prejudice is when I hear a soundcheck, and tuning issues are obvious. I think if you are doing well enough to have people pay money to see you, you should be able to tune drums!
 
It's not wasting time, as the sound guy is usually moving mics and cables from around my kit in the 90 seconds or so it takes to put those 3 cymbals away. I've seen the way other people handle equipment that isn't their own, and I'm not going to let them touch my stuff.

As an example, have you seen what people do to house kits? There's all sorts of tom rub, snare rub, and cymbal rub from people trying to adjust the drums and cymbals quickly and not caring about them. Also, I've seen quite a few cymbal stands and drums that were moved "out of the way" get toppled over by the carelessness of the people who moved them, or the other musicians trying to get on stage. You can call me rude or inconsiderate all you want, but I made an investment in my instruments, and I care about their longevity more than the couple of precious minutes shaved off of the stage turnover time.

i find myself in the middle of both points of view on this. on one hand yes, get your crap and get off stage. it's professional courtesy to a fellow drummer or band. on the other hand, i have put a LOT of money into my kit and i don't want joe schmo with his hands all over it messing with my stuff. the way i resolve that is that my kit will on stage while i help my band mates with thier guitars and amps as well as the other bands guitars and amps get on stage. then everyone from both bands (9 times out of 10 i knew everyone in the other band quite well) grabs my drums RESPECTFULLY and moves them to a back room where i tear them down myself. it's not really THAT big a deal to leave your cymbal on a stand while you move it 20 feet to another room. (at least this was before i had a rack and i haven't played any shows since i've had the rack) keep in mind, that the main venue i played was in a small town and the 'back room' i keep referreing to was the pool room on the other side of the crowd. so i had to move my stuff THROUGH the crowd. (like i said, small venue) anyways, this always seemed to work with me and the only problems we ever ran into was the OTHER drummer spending 30 minutes getting his 5 piece (yup, 5) set up right.

on the up side, and i hesitate to say this because i make a very conscious effort to remain humble, i had a handful of friends and fellow aspiring drummers that absolutely loved watching me play. the only reason they went to shows would be to watch me. kinda like a hybrid roadie / groupy without the drugs or sex (they were all dudes). anyways, they were more than happy to help me set up and tear down any time i asked. and i had given them a good number of lessons and tips and knew them all to the point that they knew what i liked and what i didn't like when handling my drums. so that made the transition periods even quicker.
 
i find myself in the middle of both points of view on this. on one hand yes, get your crap and get off stage. it's professional courtesy to a fellow drummer or band. on the other hand, i have put a LOT of money into my kit and i don't want joe schmo with his hands all over it messing with my stuff.

I can see both ways about it too. I feel as though I don't "take my time" getting off stage (I timed it tonight--3:30 to put the cymbals away AND get the rest of the kit off the stage, without rushing at all), so it's a non-issue for me, I think. I just don't appreciate the pressure that other people might put on me to hurry, whether it be telling me to hurry, offering to help in a hurried voice, or worst of all--loading their drums onto the stage while my set is still being taken down! THAT just gets in the way and slows everything down...
 
My opinion (AND YES IT'S ONLY AN OPINION) i get from metal is that it is a statement against music. It's analogous to punk being a statement against rock&roll of the 1970s. Music is melody and rhythm. Sometimes, like in rap (which i enjoy), it is much more rhythmic than melodic. And vice-versa. Metal is a blanket of noise and distortions with intense drum rhythms, and a screaming singer. It's a statement against both melodies and rhythms.

This is my opinion, i hope everyone can respect people having opinions, even if it's over the internet. Maybe i've listened to the wrong metal? Quite possible. I've seen people hate jazz because they've listened to the stuff they play in elevator (which i don't enjoy either). I've seen people hate pop music because they've heard the latest britney spears song. I do enjoy some Metallica, one of my favorite songs is Fuel, but I'm assuming they are on the softer side of metal.

Yes, i think you have listened to the wrong types of metal. Or you just don't listen to it enough. To be honest i am actually surprised that people who are musicians can actually think this at all. I'd have thought that you'd have a bit more respect for different types of music than the average joe listens to whatever crap is pumped out of the top 40 chart or whatever. This is completely ridiculous. Metal is one of the most rhythmic forms of music there is and if you actually LISTENED to it you might just hear that. It's funny we should also be talking about jazz because don't you think i could say exactly the same thing about having no rhythms? Obviously the rhythm is there, it's just hard to pick up at first. I'm surprised you can actually listen to a jazz song and be able to see the rhythm but not be able to see the rhythm with a metal song that's a lot easier to hear if you just listen to it.

Also what's up with metal being about "screaming?" A lot of metal has melodic vocals too actually. Besides, a lot of the time the melody isn't contained within the vocals, just because you're used to conventional music being about the singer making the melody line doesn't mean it HAS to be that way. A lot of "screamo" bands put the melody line in the actual guitars, which harmonise in very complex manners and make "walls of noise" which if you actually listen to it, make up very nice sounding chord progressions and melodies on their own, without the need for any singing.
 
I've seen the way other people handle equipment that isn't their own, and I'm not going to let them touch my stuff.

This is pretty much the logic behind me putting my cymbals away first. When someone is so anxious to get on stage, I really feel as though their focus is on getting their stuff set up, and not on making sure my equipment is being handled in a caring fashion.

Yes, when I played a 7 piece kit, it would have been rude of me to take my 10+ cymbals off their stands before moving stuff out of the way and I did move pieces off stage before tearing them down first. I used to break a lot more cymbals in those days, and I can never help wonder if some cracks started as flea bites developed by having things get hap-hazardly tossed back stage.

(Don't get me wrong, I take full responsibility for cymbals I've damaged, I have no problem admitting my technique may have been off - but it's been a few years since I've broken a cymbal and I can't help but think that by taking better care of my gear, it lasts longer.)

I play with 2 crash, hats and a ride live and have set up and tore own my kit more than I'd like to count and have developed a system that focuses on efficiency. I can totally agree that there are some drummers who take way too long to get things moving, but I believe that's got to do with a level of professionalism that comes with time and experience.
 
I can see both ways about it too. I feel as though I don't "take my time" getting off stage (I timed it tonight--3:30 to put the cymbals away AND get the rest of the kit off the stage, without rushing at all), so it's a non-issue for me, I think. I just don't appreciate the pressure that other people might put on me to hurry, whether it be telling me to hurry, offering to help in a hurried voice, or worst of all--loading their drums onto the stage while my set is still being taken down! THAT just gets in the way and slows everything down...
It takes you and I between 3 and 5 mins to get off stage. I think that is a reasonable amount of time! That leaves the next drummer 15 mins or so. When I play a multiple band gig (and I play about 20 of them through out the year) 15 to 20 mins is the acceptable norm for changeover. I don't have a problem with allowing the last drummer 3 to 5 mins to vacate. It only takes me 5 mins to move my partially set up kit to the stage and be ready to play.
People tend to think that because you hit drums and cymbals to play them, They are bulletproof! We all know that this is not true!
 
Yes, i think you have listened to the wrong types of metal. Or you just don't listen to it enough. To be honest i am actually surprised that people who are musicians can actually think this at all. I'd have thought that you'd have a bit more respect for different types of music than the average joe listens to whatever crap is pumped out of the top 40 chart or whatever. This is completely ridiculous. Metal is one of the most rhythmic forms of music there is and if you actually LISTENED to it you might just hear that. It's funny we should also be talking about jazz because don't you think i could say exactly the same thing about having no rhythms? Obviously the rhythm is there, it's just hard to pick up at first. I'm surprised you can actually listen to a jazz song and be able to see the rhythm but not be able to see the rhythm with a metal song that's a lot easier to hear if you just listen to it.

Also what's up with metal being about "screaming?" A lot of metal has melodic vocals too actually. Besides, a lot of the time the melody isn't contained within the vocals, just because you're used to conventional music being about the singer making the melody line doesn't mean it HAS to be that way. A lot of "screamo" bands put the melody line in the actual guitars, which harmonise in very complex manners and make "walls of noise" which if you actually listen to it, make up very nice sounding chord progressions and melodies on their own, without the need for any singing.

What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.

like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc

I mean it starts off interesting, then it just doesnt work for me...could you explain the reason for the vocal part? And im not kidding, i really would like to know.
 
What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.

like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc

I mean it starts off interesting, then it just doesnt work for me...could you explain the reason for the vocal part? And im not kidding, i really would like to know.
I agree, There is many a metal song that I have listened to and I liked the music but hated the vocal part. My son is into Metal and he likes the vocal parts. I discussed this subject with him a while back. He couldn't give me an answer other than he liked it. People who are into Metal get something from the vocals that some folks don't understand. Metal has evolved to this current vocal style and it is accepted with its fans.
On the other hand, I like the vocal style of Bob Dylan. Many people that I know laugh at me if I tell them that! How about the vocal style of Robert Plant? Some people could say the same about Zep music. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just trying to make a point by example. Cheap Trick is another example.
 
bass drums with full size pillows, blankets, quilts, SLEEPING BAGS! inside them.
tape on anything. drumheads or cymbals
deep kick drums more than 18"
excessive splashes
concert toms
drums with over the top lug designs that weight a ton.
 
What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.

like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc

I mean it starts off interesting, then it just doesnt work for me...could you explain the reason for the vocal part? And im not kidding, i really would like to know.

It just fits the music. Can you imagine soft, clean vocals over a song like that? It would sound bad. Opeth has both great growling and great clean singing, but he doesn't "sing" over the heavy parts. The song lightens up when he sings. It takes some getting used to, also. I used to laugh at bands like Behemoth but I love them now.
Any other vocals really wouldn't fit the song. The song without vocals in all would get boring.
 
I agree, There is many a metal song that I have listened to and I liked the music but hated the vocal part. My son is into Metal and he likes the vocal parts. I discussed this subject with him a while back. He couldn't give me an answer other than he liked it. People who are into Metal get something from the vocals that some folks don't understand. Metal has evolved to this current vocal style and it is accepted with its fans.

Kind of a threadjack but I shouldn't have to look up what a singer is saying for every lyric. Some of these bands you can't understand ONE THING they're singing. That doesn't make sense to me. It's just screaming plain and simple.
 
It just fits the music. Can you imagine soft, clean vocals over a song like that? It would sound bad. Opeth has both great growling and great clean singing, but he doesn't "sing" over the heavy parts. The song lightens up when he sings. It takes some getting used to, also. I used to laugh at bands like Behemoth but I love them now.
Any other vocals really wouldn't fit the song. The song without vocals in all would get boring.

This makes sense, as does bobdadrummer's statement. I guess its just a 100% personal thing. One either likes it or doesnt. Interesting, humans are.
 
I don't know about you other non Metal players, but I have a decent double bass pedal that I hook up from time to time . I can't get anywhere near 200bpm's. But I have a blast fooling around with blast beats. I see where these guys are coming from and I don't have any contempt for anyones preferred style of music, or the way that they choose to set up their Kits!
 
What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.

It's like rapping, it's not nesicerally about the vocals themselves (although in some senses it can add emotion), it's about the lyrics and what they're saying. You might have to look up some band's words (that tends to be the more modern "core" bands that have really slurred vocals like that, usually on purpose, don't ask why) but you will find they're usually very eloquent and well thought out and poetic.
 
I've always hated people who have parts of their kit that barely get used. For example, I once saw a drummer that had a china over and behind his head (a la John Blackwell) and he hit it once the entire gig. It actually only bothered me a little though because he was pretty short and he had to stand up to hit it...it made me laugh.
 
I've always hated people who have parts of their kit that barely get used. For example, I once saw a drummer that had a china over and behind his head (a la John Blackwell) and he hit it once the entire gig. It actually only bothered me a little though because he was pretty short and he had to stand up to hit it...it made me laugh.
If you think about it, He got you to watch his show. He placed that china in a precarious spot and you watched him to see how or when he would play it! He made you anticipate his moves. It was like a magicians trick. He made you look and concern yourself somewhere where you wouldn't have looked otherwise!
 
More recently, I've come to resent hypersensitive drummers who can't handle another person's opinion, even if it is constructed in a way filled with respect.
 
Drummers who haven't yet grasped the idea of phrasing kind of get to me. You know what I'm talking about if you go and see "scenester" shows around your town where kids play your local flavor of punk/ska/kindafastsloppydistortedmess music.
The drummers do a fast rock beat on closed or sloshy hi-hats, then do a 16th note fill around the toms, crash the ride or ride the crash for the chorus, another 16th note fill around the toms, or maybe just the snare this time, back into the verse... And it's the same story the whole set.
Throughout, the drummer looks like his arms are going to fall off because he's playing harder and faster than he should be at this point, naturally getting sloppy as hell and falling apart after the first song. The fills are the same thing every time, it's stupid, has no shape, no thought put into it, just testosterone. I keep thinking, if this drummer just realized that he could play a fill that's less dense but instead somehow helps to support the melody line (if there is one) and to shape the song using crative PHRASING, it could have much more emotional impact than all the hard hitting roundhouse fills in the world....\

So yeah, that's my prejudice, the one that I feel ok about voicing anyway...
 
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