New Istanbul Agop 22" Signature...

Drummer Karl

Drummer Karl

KARL MEMBER
Hi Drummerworld!

Yeees, it finally arrived: The desired green-labeled Istanbul Agop, 22".
Just came home from school around 7:15 PM and immediately had the chance to wrap off the carton, take photos and of course play it with my other Agops.

First of all I wanna thank Tony from cymbalsonly for the great service and fast shipping. He`s a stunning kind of person who really knows his stuff. I can highly recommend to check out www.cymbalsonly.com for many many Istanbul, Bosphorus, Paiste, Meinl, Sabian, Zildjian and Ufip cymbals.

Secondly, here is my review after experimenting a bit.

Distinctivenesses:

I decided to go for a thin 22": 2173 grams light. The first thing I noticed was the big bell. I almost worried it would be too influential for the overall sound. In the end I couldn`t see why I was even worried. Still, compared to my Mel Lewis 21" the bell is...huge.

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Another anomaly of those Signatures is the lathing. The cymbal is just lightly lathed on top and bottom. It is said to make the sound drier, more controlable. Surely it looks amazing along with the green labels. =)
However...

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Generally Agops are known for their extremely flat profile. This applies to this particular 22" as well. Very flat with a flat bell. Actually the flattest Agop I`ve seen so far.

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Furthermore...and just as logical as logic itself the hammering is so typical. Being hand-hammered cymbals from Turkey they really look like a leopard pressed into a cymbal form. It`s again random-looking hammering which really adds a special flavor to the pie.

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Concluding to the look and techniques....

Sound:

One word: Awesome. I already got two Agop pies from Tony, one 14" Turk hi-hat and a 21" Mel Lewis Ride (2 rivets) and I can just say that his sound clips are so authentic. Bodacious but simply great work Tony!
Like I said, it`s a thin 22"...just 2173 grams light. I really have an addiction for those light big cymbals. Mostly I`m into modern kind of Jazz things...Post Bop and the contemporary area and it really really pleases me.
The lathing makes it sound very controllable indeed and thankfully the flat profile adds a dark and very mellow vibe to it. The big bell sounds well integrated and doesn`t cut. I like that it`s not so agressive, I wouldn`t need this.

The first thing I thought was: "Oh cool, I just got a mellow-sounding Sabian Ralph Peterson Sig. Ride with more wash." Yeeees, it got a lot of trashy qualities. Mixed with that buttery wash and woody stick definition that makes a magnific sound. Especially the crash sound brings out the mellow trashiness, sounds the cat`s pyjamas!!
Unfortunatly I can`t serve you with sound clips at the moment...just with pics. I`ll try to get something average at least.

In conclusion I`m simply impressed with..."her". ;-)
It differs so much from my 22" K Cutsom Dry Light Ride and doesn`t create such a huge contrast with my other fellow Agops. Uhhh...I`m excited about next piano trio rehearsal, can`t wait to try it then. Maybe I can record some bad videos. I`ll see.

Anyway, comments would be highly appreciated, too. :)

Okay, some more pics:

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Thanks,

Karl
 
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Excellent Karl. Perfect weight for a green label Sig for piano trio jazz and other acoustic jazz settings. Nice rundown and photos. Enjoy buddy!
 
My brother saw one of these when he went to Turkey, he told me that he almost bought one just for me. Right now, I wish he did.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Appreciate it so much!

Garvin said:
Nice looking cymbal. Definitely heavy huh? Lets hear a recording.
Click to expand...

Haha! In proportion to my 21" Mel Lewis this Signature is even lighter and thinner. It early begins wobbling. I`m definitly gonna try to organize something regarding recordings. Whether it is an average video or some higher quality audio. Thanks Garvin!

Steamer said:
Excellent Karl. Perfect weight for a green label Sig for piano trio jazz and other acoustic jazz settings. Nice rundown and photos. Enjoy buddy!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I`m excited about it in the live setting Stan. Indeed I`m sure that it fits in perfectly well. I know that my Mel Lewis does fit in...the mellow, dark tone seems to add a de luxe thing to the sound of the piano in this situation!

I also thought about heavier models before and listened to some Sigs in the 2500g range but it couldn`t convince me really. :)

Tuxido said:
Looks nice, must sound nice too.

so...when are you getting your flat ride ? :)

and do you have any news about your kit ?
Click to expand...

Well, I think that another Agop is quite far away at the moment. Lars gets the shells in ca. three weeks and hopefully there won`t be any problems with shipping the hardware. He told me that it`s a tricky situation at the moment. More and more people want...so the external suppliers and the producer for those German beech shells have to update logistics, the shell producer has to get an additional press built for example. This unfortunatly takes time and in conclusion orders can just be handled with delay.
Though in the end there will be a high-quality product...so I don`t mind. ;-)

Thanks again for your comments!!

Karl
 
Hi,

I noticed you put the top felt and wing nuts on your stands, is there a reason ?

I find that they choke the cymbal a bit (even if loose) and rides are heavy enough that they won't fly off the stand id i dont pu the top wingnut.

(or am I paranoid?)
 
Thanks so much!
I`m really excited about the custom kit as well. I can only imagine what it`ll look and sound like but I`m sure that it will work well for me. Along with my Agops and the K Custom it should be a blast! :)

Etienne: Yeah...now that you mention it...although I don`t think or feel that the felts and wing nuts choke it, I think it has no real and just minor effect on sound, respectively.
Just turned them very loose so that the top felt doesn`t even touch the cymbal. And to be honest, it makes me relaxed - it`s safe. Haha...

Do you play without wing nuts and top felts?

Thanks again!

Karl
 
A couple of questions to add Karl. How's the stick to wash ratio on your Sig? Does if have a nice explosive crash that calms down pretty quick going back to having a defined stick click sound on top? How's the bell sound on your sample?

It seems to me it's probably very close to having some similar characteristics being 2173g with mine coming in only a wee bit heavier at 2210g. The bell on my is quite useful and overal the cymbal is very dark/warm with a dry like trash quality with a great stick sound. I suspect you're in the same character zone with your sample

Looking forward to hearing a sound sample of the 3 Agops together. A Sig 22" ride, Mel Lewis 21" on the left and the Turk hats must make for a dandy sonic combo giving off a wide mix of sounds for you to work with.
 
Drummer Karl said:
Thanks so much!

Etienne: Yeah...now that you mention it [...]

Do you play without wing nuts and top felts?
Click to expand...

Yes, I never put on the top wing nuts or felts. I want the cymbal to be as free as possible
and its faster to switch them.

I only put the top felts or wing nuts if I stack cymbals together.. like a 8" splash over a small crash so that it wont fly off.
 
Tuxido said:
Yes, I never put on the top wing nuts or felts. I want the cymbal to be as free as possible
and its faster to switch them.

I only put the top felts or wing nuts if I stack cymbals together.. like a 8" splash over a small crash so that it wont fly off.
Click to expand...

I've always used top felts myself but they are very loose to move and don't apply any pressure onto the cymbal. They are free to 'float" on top so I don't hear much of any effect on muffling of sound/vibrations per cymbal.. I use all my cymbals as crashes too so i've always liked a "buffer zone" between the cymbal and the top metal wingnut when playing hard.

I played a house kit at a show without a top felt or wingnut this Summer and sent my 18" Mel Lewis crash ride shooting off the stand into space during an intense exchange with the sax player in a number. The cymbal never cracked thank god when it landed but it recieved a nice flea bite on the edge in the process when it clipped the base of a cymbal stand on it's way down.This experience proved to me yet again to stick with the program that works for me. Just comes down to personal preference I guess.
 
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Very nice, Karl!

I've had many Sigs in many sizes- 18", 20", 21", 22", 23", and 24" (not kidding). With both the Sigs and the SEs, I have found that the really thin ones often have an amazing stick. Instead of the wash just building and building, it just drops right off or stays consistently under the stick. This characteristic is most prevalent in a couple of 20" SEs in my current collection. One's around 1600g and the other is around 1700g. Very strong stick and the wash never seems to overtake the stick on either ride.

Then again, it's really hit or miss with the Sigs and SEs. But I can tell you I've never heard one I didn't like. ;-)

Enjoy it, Karl.
 
You finally got it! What made you go the signature over the SE though, i thought you where looking at the SE? Well done on finally getting it though, can't wait for some recordings with your trio.
 
Steamer said:
A couple of questions to add Karl. How's the stick to wash ratio on your Sig? Does if have a nice explosive crash that calms down pretty quick going back to having a defined stick click sound on top? How's the bell sound on your sample?

It seems to me it's probably very close to having some similar characteristics being 2173g with mine coming in only a wee bit heavier at 2210g. The bell on my is quite useful and overal the cymbal is very dark/warm with a dry like trash quality with a great stick sound. I suspect you're in the same character zone with your sample

Looking forward to hearing a sound sample of the 3 Agops together. A Sig 22" ride, Mel Lewis 21" on the left and the Turk hats must make for a dandy sonic combo giving off a wide mix of sounds for you to work with.
Click to expand...

Well, I do agree that it probably isn`t that far away from your Sig. Although big sound differences occur within one weight "section" since these cymbals are beautifully hand-made.
I`m incredibly pleased with the stick compared to wash. Like I said, it is controlled and the woody stick definition always blends through. Generally it creates more wash and more trashiness than my 21" Mel definitly. The Mel Lewis simply got a kind of clearer wash, less trashiness...though still enough to be loved by me. =)
As I said in my first post, the Signature reminded me a bit of those very thin and trashy Ralph Peterson ride cymbals but with more dark and mellow wash. So in conclusion it creates a consistent but never overpowering "roar". I`ll know more when I play this beauty with the band or make some recordings.

Uh I know what`s missing: A 1700g 20" Turk ride. :) Haha...sorry, that`s the addiction.

bilkay said:
Very nice, Karl!

I've had many Sigs in many sizes- 18", 20", 21", 22", 23", and 24" (not kidding). With both the Sigs and the SEs, I have found that the really thin ones often have an amazing stick. Instead of the wash just building and building, it just drops right off or stays consistently under the stick. This characteristic is most prevalent in a couple of 20" SEs in my current collection. One's around 1600g and the other is around 1700g. Very strong stick and the wash never seems to overtake the stick on either ride.

Then again, it's really hit or miss with the Sigs and SEs. But I can tell you I've never heard one I didn't like. ;-)

Enjoy it, Karl.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
Yes, I`ve seen many of your Agops and I gotta admit that you`ve got a great collection! I also agree that you can`t do anything wrong with those. I personally really like big cymbals in general, beginning with 18". Especially the Signature crashes sound phenomenal! Compareable with HHXtreme crashes.

Latin Groover said:
You finally got it! What made you go the signature over the SE though, i thought you where looking at the SE? Well done on finally getting it though, can't wait for some recordings with your trio.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate...mh. I don`t exactly know why I finally chose this 2173g Signature instead of the 2188g SE I had in mind.
Actually I really like the fact that the pitch of my Sig is soo low. Compared to the SE this difference is a million miles big.
Moreover I like the additional dryness and the woody stick definition of the Sig. That finally had to convince me and I`m happy I did it this way. ;-)

Thanks for the comments! And sorry for the delayed response...

Karl
 
Thanks for the reply Karl. Seems like they may be close in character and agree they are all a bit different even at the same size and close in weight. The beauty of getting your own sound from handmade Turkish pies.

The level of stick click on top with a very dark warm wash and quick trashy crash really attracted me to my particular 22" Sig ride.

Some use of it in a musical context and some recording down the road with it will reveal more about it's character Karl indeed.

A 20" thin Turk Jazz ride or one of the rarer thin Ottoman 21 "Jazz Rides would add nicely to the addiction Karl :}

P.S. Love those Sig crashes oh yes like my 18" including the dandy paper thin 888g Sig 16" crash I have too especially for acoustic jazz settings.
 
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