Why Is There Such An Anti-Jazz Vibe Here?

TheArchitect said:
Again, you have to understand it to appreciate it. If you think it sounds like guys tuning up then you have missed a few steps.
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That's like telling me to understand some of that German Death Metal. I just dont like it. The guys may be great at it, Its just not my thing. I honestly have always felt someof the best drummers ever to live played big band and jazz and to see their true skill you needed to see or hear them solo. A lot of it to me is keeping a beat with just the hi-hat and once in a while an accented snare in some wierd place.
 
Bernhard said:
Yes i know what Jazz-Snobs are!!!!

They live here in Switzerland too in my little town. They complain about everything, that's not played exactly in style and is newer than 50 years. The are called Jazz Police....and they are even writing reviews in newspapers, like: how awful Lewis Nash was, playing so flashy with his brushes and Steve Gadd daring to rockify some standard tunes.

They all love Guitarists like Freddy Green and his wonderful harmonies and hate newcomers like John Scofield, who seems not beeing able to tune his guitar.

Normally they are dressed all in black and you recognice them and their beautiful wifes always very quick, when clapping to a swing tune in contre pulse.

B.
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I've got plenty of those in my own town B.....mostly the complete purist jazz musicians {true snobs} who haven't listened to anything past 1958 but seem to quickly pass judgement and have the most to say on what is acceptable jazz behavior regarding other players on the scene and in the world of jazz music in general who have "moved on" in the big world of later developments in the music till today. Stuck by their own choice.....

The audience is far more hip to new sounds and change and accepting the music "as is" since the walls of bias and what is the only {right} way to approach playing the music and whether you're in the right jazz "club" don't exist to these open minded individuals and listeners i've experienced for many years.
 
I'd say if anything there's the opposite tendancy on this forum.

Generally, compared to other drum forums out there (Pearl Drummers Forum comes to mind) the average age of posters is higher here, and there are a lot more experienced and knowledgable drummers. You'd be more likely to get flamed posting a Travis Barker is God thread than a Buddy Rich is God thread... although this does reflect on the skills of the drummer, not just the style of music, but now isnt the time or place...
 
Really? I don't think so, this is a mature and grown up drumming forum with - respect - as its baseline.
 
I had the privilage of seeing Ignacio Berroa's quartet this weekend. I didn't notice any snobs much less jazz snobs. Seeing Ignacio play from less than 10' away was an experience I'll never forget.

I do see that discussions regarding jazz tend to get heated on this forum. Some of that is due to passion for the art form, some is just pure baiting by posters looking for a reaction.
It's sad that it happens because there are some very good jazz players here who are willing to share their experiences with others. I hope they continue to do so despite the negative buzz they receive at times.
 
I'll drop my handful of coins:

I wouldn't worry about it too much, people throw down a "and just in case the jazz snobs get on me about it" type of comment from time to time. I can't defend that, it's wrong but I do understand where the feeling can come from.

A lot of people are ignorant about jazz, not really such a bad thing, they just aren't exposed to it a lot. Jazz people are easy to target because they're a minority and many of them are highly educated. People get intimidated and then insecure and that leads to conflict.

Jazz is just another form of music that a group of people are in to. I could be a metal snob constantly, get on about the lack of blast beats and double bass in jazz... that wouldn't benefit anyone. People think that jazz people will be rude because of their understanding "jazz snobs think they know better." In reality, we're not so different, you and I. Never has a jazz musician ever insulted my playing or asked why I wasn't rocking a swing pattern in my playing, in fact jazz players have been the most supportive of what I do.

There's a lot of young people on here, I'm one of them. I know where a lot of them are coming from but at the same time, they'll grow out of it. As long as their "anti-jazz" sentiment doesn't make you "anti-jazz" then it's all hunky-dory.

love everyone for who they are

Sorry for the long winded post but thanks for reading,
Ian Pasquini
 
Mr. Pasquini said:
I'll drop my handful of coins:

I wouldn't worry about it too much, people throw down a "and just in case the jazz snobs get on me about it" type of comment from time to time. I can't defend that, it's wrong but I do understand where the feeling can come from.

A lot of people are ignorant about jazz, not really such a bad thing, they just aren't exposed to it a lot. Jazz people are easy to target because they're a minority and many of them are highly educated. People get intimidated and then insecure and that leads to conflict.

Jazz is just another form of music that a group of people are in to. I could be a metal snob constantly, get on about the lack of blast beats and double bass in jazz... that wouldn't benefit anyone. People think that jazz people will be rude because of their understanding "jazz snobs think they know better." In reality, we're not so different, you and I. Never has a jazz musician ever insulted my playing or asked why I wasn't rocking a swing pattern in my playing, in fact jazz players have been the most supportive of what I do.

There's a lot of young people on here, I'm one of them. I know where a lot of them are coming from but at the same time, they'll grow out of it. As long as their "anti-jazz" sentiment doesn't make you "anti-jazz" then it's all hunky-dory.

love everyone for who they are

Sorry for the long winded post but thanks for reading,
Ian Pasquini
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Brilliant...........
 
BigSteve said:
I had the privilage of seeing Ignacio Berroa's quartet this weekend. I didn't notice any snobs much less jazz snobs. Seeing Ignacio play from less than 10' away was an experience I'll never forget.
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Ignacio is awesome, as well as a very rounded player.
 
I don't think there is a negative vibe here on Jazz. I think it is kind of neutral. It doesn't get spoken of much except for threads like this one, which is almost a duplication of another. It's almost like Metal. Just not on the front burner. I think we could all learn a lot more about Jazz, but I don't see much negativity.
 
This thread puzzles me a little. I'm not sure how the subject of big kit vs. small kit and snobbery from one towards other came into it. I'm a jazz drummer and I could care less what size kit someone plays. Am I out of touch? Tony Williams played on what I would call a 'large kit', at least relative to what I typically play. I really enjoy other styles of music and I play all kinds of music because there are more playing opportunities if you are willing to play in different styles. Again, am I out of touch with my colleagues?

Of course, technique vs. feel has poked its nose into the thread in a couple posts. No need for me to rehash any of that. Its a false dichotomy. Its like saying Miles would play Miles without having ever practiced.

I've been taking a little break from the forums and it is refreshing honestly. Stopped in today to see what is up and here is a nice little thread.

About jazz snobs - I've been bashed by many of them, and I did some bashing in my day - when I was 18 and immature and full of vinegar. Now I really don't give much of a crap one way or another. Its about making music. If you do it well, you will attract some haters, but recognize them for what they are and have pity.

Last night I was handed a trumpet part to Mr. Clean. I'd (embarrassingly) never heard the recording before. I glanced over it, noticed the drum tacet towards the end and that it was a half time 'funk' feel. We've recently added a horn section to the band, all fabulous musicians. Anyway I play it the way I think it should sound and the guy who handed me the sheet music was grinning from ear to ear. I went home and listened to the original recording. It was eerie, spooky almost. Apparently the original drummer and I saw the tune in an almost identical fashion. Anyway, little moments like that make all the hating that goes on seem stupid. It isn't about whether what you're doing is considered 'relevant' because 12 year-olds don't go to a mall and buy it. It isn't about trying to impress a bunch of critics who couldn't play their way out of a paper bag. Its about making music.
 
As a general rule, I stay off the jazz threads.....far too often they are just a minefield that I have no desire to negotiate my way through. I don't play the genre and won't waste anyones time pretending I know anything jazz related.

But I do want to highlight these......I think they speak volumes.

Steamer said:
Shut the computer off and play the music and let it speak for itself or even better yet get out and hear it live by people who love it with a passion.
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Garvin said:
If you can play, play. I don't care what genre it is. I'm impressed by musicians who make good music.
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Average said:
Its about making music............................................................
.......................Its about making music.
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Doesn't matter if it's jazz, rockabilly, latin grooves or extreme metal......as long as this is our ultimate goal, then the rest as they say, is conversation. Great for forums, but don't let it stop you playing whatever you feel like playing.....detractors or not.
 
JT1 said:
I think because jazz is so isolated as a genre (as it doesn't tend to creep in a lot of other forms of drumming but on a technical level could dramatically improve any style!)
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I disagree. Groove-wise many styles are related or came out of jazz.

Conceptually, you can be on a jazz mindsetting in many styles - like i.e. Keith Carlock says: (don't remember the exact words) I'm a rock guy with a jazz mentality. Meaning loving and playing grooves (with a backbeat) and rather rock sound and volume, but with the improvisation-oriented and more open language of jazz.

And stylistically, there are so many fusions of styles out there today, and many of them have quite some jazz in it, as well as they have some rock and R&B/funk/soul in it.

In my opinion one hears in a musician's playing whether he has "checked out" some jazz, and if so, it very much does creep in in his playing.
 
aydee said:
oops, a jazz thread.. I''ll mosey on right outta here, sorry guys...
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Im with you Abe! Im sitting back and watching the show on this one.
Good reading so far!
OMG! Even Bernhard came out for this one! This is gonna be big!!!
 
I think when people revert to the "snob" theory it's because they feel threatened, and feel they need to defend themselves. I remember seeing Tommy Lee on his reality show where he went to college. When trying to learn a quads part he said something along the lines of "In the Crue, we never read music off the page, we played it from the heart."
Music reading is just a tool, not a "way" of playing. When I read music, I play it with all of my heart. I think some players feel the same way about jazz. Thoughts?
 
you know I have made myself scarce lately as things in life has changed, but when I use to spend HOURS a day going through this very forum and reading through most of the categories I have not come across this "Anti-Jazz Vibe" here on this forum.

I have seen some silly arguments, some folks that I thought were wrong, but such is life and not once did I ever take any of this personal...sit back, relax, and you will find that there really isn't this big ugly thing lurking around the corner as you so seem to be thinking. This is how you feel, I read that, but stick around, drop the subject, and you will see it all disappear.

Cheers,

JIM
 
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