How our perspective changes

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Like everyone else here, I read alot about people going to eKits for the quiet practice, or guys trying to discover ways to mute their acoustic kits so they're not bothering everyone.

The other day a friend sent me a message that simply stated, "When you don't give a damn, you're much happier".

This got me thinking of my younger days when I first got sticks in hand. And it made me think about how we all change over time. I get it - we don't want to bother people with our questionable drumming skills - but on the other hand, when I was a kid, I didn't care what others thought and I practiced as loud and as long as I could. I would, of course, stop before 8PM on a school night, and if someone in the house was sick and trying to recuperate, I wouldn't play at all (did alot of pad playing on those days).

My only focus was getting better and maybe getting to be a professional player one day (ok - I admit when I was 14 I wanted to replace Stewart Copeland in the Police - highly unlikely but things you thought about at that age).

And sometimes I think the attitude then is what shapes you as you get older. So, being brash and "not giving a damn" kinda' shaped the player I am today. Which makes me wonder, if you're learning how to play now, and you really care about bothering others, will you become a good player? Will you be an aggressive enough player necessary to say, "Yes I can do that. When do you want me to show up?"

Drums are loud and noisy, and there's a certain kind of aggressiveness that goes into playing them, especially if you're in the driver's seat of an over-powering big band or rock act. If this is the case, and that's what you want to do, why are you so concerned with "keeping quiet"? To be a drummer, means everybody knows your a drummer, because they all have been listening to you already. Maybe if you don't hide it, and just play, you'll get much better quicker because you're not worried about people noticing or being bothered. So you can get stuff done much quicker because you're allowing everyone in the neighborhood to experience your lesson with you.

I'm not saying that if you live in an apartment you'll never become good. Maybe there's a deal that can be struck? I know I live in a house, but I'm sure my immediate neighbors know when I'm playing, and nobody has ever complained. I think of all those hours my parents had to endure when I was a much worse player, and feel blessed!

I would just encourage our "quiet players" to be a little more out anyway. You've chosen an instrument that is designed to be breathtakingly loud, yet need an eKit or pads to "keep it down". I'll pass on that attitude. Where do you stand? Maybe some should be playing electric guitar or keyboards instead? Is that being cruel?
 
Ha! Funny, Bo, I was just having this conversation last night!

Like you, when I was in my teens I had no inkling that anyone else might find the racket I was making irritating. I figured they loved it as much as I did!

Later out on my own in a big share house with a rock basement, I learned quickly how grating it can be to listen to someone banging on the drums. First it was the stressed look on my roommates' faces, and later the edgy irritation I felt listening to a drummer friend of mine taking long turns on my kit while I tried to get things done upstairs.

I'm really sensitive to bothering others with it now and won't even touch my practice pad in my apartment. I still have my kit set up in a rehearsal space a couple miles from home that I bang on for solo practice & muse-chasing a couple hours before band practice twice a week.

So to scratch my musical itch at home, I take your "cruel" suggestion and play guitar and bass running through amp/effects emulation software blasting in the cans. And no acoustic guitars since I'm pretty sure the neighbors can hear that!

Here's an interesting tidbit: I was stationed in Japan for a couple years and fell in with crowd of Japanese musicians, mostly rock oriented stuff, but some fusion-y players, too. One thing I noticed right away was that there was no shortage of very skilled guitar and bass players, but I never met a single drummer who I thought was even mildly inspiring. I'm sure this was because it just wasn't practical to even *own* a drumkit since there wouldn't be anywhere to set it up and play if you did. Most people live in very small apartments and the only kits available to play were whatever kits were in the hourly practice rooms, and those rates weren't cheap. Imagine trying to get good only getting to play at practice! Just not gonna happen, especially in a place like Japan where respecting other peoples' boundaries and limited moments of tranquility is built in to the culture - it would be unthinkably rude to impose on another the kind of racket practicing drums would create.
 
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Good words Bo,

You're describing how I am right now. I play as much as I can, and as loud as I want it to be when I'm practicing, with in reason of course. I don't play after 8 pm on week nights, and keep it down if someones napping or what ever. I haven't had a complaint from any neighbours yet I know they can clearly hear that I'm practicing. I've had them even compliment me on how my playing has improved over the years. My one neighbour said "You were pretty awful at the start but you're great now". It feels good to get some positive feed back from those you thought you were annoying.

You're also right about drums being loud and energetic instruments. You've gotta hit those suckers to keep the band on time or be swallowed up by the guitarist's stack. You should be like Animal the Muppet, wail away on those things and have fun. My favourite moments playing drums are when I've lost myself completely in the playing, but you can't do that when you're worrying about noise.

Just think "What would Dave Grohl or Chad Smith have to say about playing drums quietly?"
 
So regarding the Japanese perspective, I guess we should really celebrate those guys then. I wonder how privileged Akira Jimbo (among other fine Japanese drumset artists) was to be able to play at all?

But yeah, instruments that can get plugged in and listened to by headphones would be dominant in a society like that. Which is probably why they love to see the loud, brash American rock n roll bands come through. My sister who lived in Tokyo for a year or so discovered a thriving sub-culture of Japanese who purchase old Levi's, vintage American instruments, form rock bands, and basically act like 1950s rockers. But to have an outlet like that to be loud and brash must be so treasured in a society where everyone lives on top of one another and personal space is so small.
 
Bo, the difference between your childhood experience and the "how can I play quietly?" threads is that the "quietly" threads are often started by players who discover relatively late in life that they are drummers. Off the top of my head, hell Madge, hello MaryO and hello me! And I know that there are plenty others besides. When you have a family, neighbours and yes, even a modicum of concern for others, wanting to play quietly rather than not playing kinda comes with the territory.

Around 18 months ago when I was starting out I played with mute pads on my kit unless I was jamming because I was only too aware that my playing was butt clenchingly awful and I didn't want anybody hearing it. (Not that I am now the embodiment of Pretty Purdie, Ringo and Jens Hannemann...but at least my money beat now has a bit less poverty to it.)

Which is not to take a "get off my lawn" approach to callow youth, not giving a rat's about the neighbours is part and parcel of being a teen.
 
It's a real hold back to drummers, the noise thing. A lot of people cannot tolerate drums. Especially living in close quarters. I really think that's why really great drummers are not as common as really great guitarists. You really need the practice time to get good on drums.

I always felt stifled practicing when I knew someone might be bothered by it. So having a space to practice where it wasn't too bad on everyone else was a priority in life for me.

Even now, I try and practice when no one is home, but I don't let that stop me. It's not that bad for the people listening volume-wise anyway, and in keeping with Bo's friends motto, tough crap. It's a need, not a want.
 
I think there's a confidence built by playing loudly and strongly that carries over to other volume levels, but I do agree, the noise ordinance reality of present day certainly has made it hard to raise confident drummers.

What I try to tell up-and-coming drummers is that they have to learn to be confident, put their hand on the wheel and foot on the gas and punch it. If you don't have that, the band will sound weak and unprofessional.

I also think that Billy Ray hit it square on the head in the other thread, you have to be able to play all levels from a whisper to a scream to get the gigs. But before you can play at all levels, you have to be able to play!
 
I play my e-kit every day. It's handy for a lot of things. It's good for gigs in restaurants where they want quieter music. I can get loud if I want to.
 
It's true. Looking back I am gobsmacked at what I put the neighbours through (as no doubt were they). Machine Head and Pinups full blast, uncoordinated drums over the top of it, slamming out deluded "exact" copies of Ian Paice's and Aynsley Dunbar's drum parts. Yeeha - what a ride! :)

I knew about piano and guitar lessons but it never occurred to me that you were supposed to actually learn drums. People were always saying things like "a monkey could do it" so I figured that if you had any talent you should be able to play pretty well right away. Thing is, I suspected most drummers were "cheating" because they'd go home and practice up the things that didn't work out first time :) I remember practising playing fast singles back and forth between snare and mounted tom - four notes per drum - over and over at high decibels.

It never occurred to me to think about how terrible it must have sounded to neighbours. Why would they dislike it? I rocked! *cough*

Contrast with acclaimed classical percussionist, Tristan Fry, who for a period played with John Williams's Sky - he spent his first four years drumming only on a practice pad. Those classical teachers can be cruel!

Bo, it's a good point re: aggression. That's something I too often overlook because I'm so hippy dippy by nature. I tend to play well when I'm grumpy. When you're grumpy you're not trying to impress, which is the crux of the biscuit.
 
I have to agree with this. I cut my teeth a long time ago on real drums played loudly in my parents' house. I did so at reasonable hours and never had problems. You can't learn to play properly by tickling them or constantly playing pads 'cause you'll never learn the feel of a real drum/cymbal. These days I can afford to mute because I'm mostly fine-tuning things and not afraid of losing my kit feel but beginners need the real thing as much as possible.
 
Fine, I'll take the contrary position.

I disagree. I don't think you need to hit hard and aggressively on unmuted drums to develop technique or power. Yes, of course it helps to play exactly as you would play in a gig situation, and in fact some things cannot be learned by doing otherwise. But I have a clear memory of reading a Virgil Donati interview where the interviewer was talking to him after he had finished practicing in his hotel room on pads, and the walls were literally dripping with sweat. If it's good enough for Virgil...

You definitely have to hit hard and aggressively on something to develop power, simply because the muscles and nerves need to be trained. But I don't think unmuted drums (and noise) are necessary. It's way more FUN to make that loud noise though, and fun practice means more practice.

Having said that, I will admit I have not been drumming as long as most people chiming in here, so ask me again in 20 years and maybe I will have changed my mind :)
 
yeah it's a real shame, most of my drumming is now on an e-kit

venues etc have got so painful I've converted a beautiful Tama Starclassic Bubinga with mesh heads and triggers.................such a shame ; - (
 
Bo, the difference between your childhood experience and the "how can I play quietly?" threads is that the "quietly" threads are often started by players who discover relatively late in life that they are drummers. Off the top of my head, hell Madge, hello MaryO and hello me! And I know that there are plenty others besides. When you have a family, neighbours and yes, even a modicum of concern for others, wanting to play quietly rather than not playing kinda comes with the territory.

Separated at birth, were James and I.

I also felt inhibited because I lacked confidence. You tend not to be like that when you're in your teens! Adults often feel vulnerable as learners, because by the time they reach adulthood they're usually pretty good at a lot of things and it takes considerable courage to become an absolute beginner again - frequently being taught by people young enough to be their offspring. IME, adults are often less inclined to take the risk of getting things wrong, which also tends to inhibit.

I remember hitting an acoustic snare for the first time. I very much doubt if I hit it hard, but it sounded like a gunshot to me and it literally made me jump! I've never liked loud noises, so for a long time I couldn't bring myself to play other than quietly, but by making a conscious effort to embrace the sound rather than be afraid of it, I've improved enormously and it certainly is way more fun!

Maybe the quiet people just need time to get to this place.
 
Yeah, I made a fierce racket and never wondered if people didn't like it. I thought it sounded awesome, so why wouldn't they? I had to have put my folks through hell. I practiced in my bedroom, sometimes for 7 or 8 hours a day over summer vacation. I remember my dad would come busting in trying to get my attention and I was oblvious, with my head down, just wailing. He'd flash the lights to catch my eye sometimes.

We did have one neighbor who told my mom that she liked hearing me play. But I can't imagine that was a universal sentiment in the neighborhood (or household).
 
When I started learning, we lived on 2-1/2 acres of land and the houses were well separated. Mom and Dad were never around, and the only person I really bothered was my sister. I'd go straight to the drums every day after school. One time when she got home, she ripped the speaker wires right out of the stereo and stormed upstairs to her room and slammed the door shut. So I followed her upstairs and stuck my sticks right in her door in an act of defiance. Shortly after that, my kit and I were moved to the garage which was a hundred feet away from the house on the other side of the garden. Concern over spiders aside, it was cool, and I never even thought about the neighbors (no "u") other than the fact that they must think I really stink at playing. Who cares what they think? I'm gonna learn that Herman Rarebell drum beat!

After high school, I haven't had a lot of opportunity to practice at home because of concern over noise. Most of my practice since high school has been at band practice.
 
I agree with both sides to this thread. I try to be considerate but at the same time certain moves on the instrument just demand power and/or volume. You gotta cut loose, that's one beauty of the instrument.
My neighbours hear my drums, no complaints.

Nobody has mentioned about the opposite on this thread. What about those obnoxious neighbours who talk really loud, and you can hear it yards away, or who shout at their kids. I don't want to hear that either.
 
I was lucky to have very understanding parents growing up. I got my first kit at 13, and played at full volume in the basement from then until I left at 21. They didn't even complain when my friends would come by with half stacks to double the volume. I made sure to quit playing by 8:00 during the week and 9:00 on the weekends. I never heard any complaints from the neighbors, but there were also 3 other drummers in the neighbor hood along with 3 guitarists and one very loud metal band that played down the street.

Since I moved out, with one exception, I always rented houses instead of apartments. Yes it was more expensive, but worth every penny. I now own a house and have a dedicated music room in the basement. I stop playing by 9:00, and have never heard any complaints from the neighbors.
 
Good thread. Yes I must have driven my family crazy as a kid. My uncle was a drummer so my Mom was probably used to it. My Dad loved Sousa marches so maybe I was just lucky having them for parents.


"I always felt stifled practicing when I knew someone might be bothered by it. So having a space to practice where it wasn't too bad on everyone else was a priority in life for me.

Even now, I try and practice when no one is home, but I don't let that stop me."

Mary and Larry I get the whole issue. I tend to have a better practice, or at least it is better from the beginning of the practice, when nobody is home. And bot do I really hate to practice my vocals with anyone home. However if someone is home I tend to forget about them after 10 minutes or so.
 
I was one of the "late" starters when it came to playing the drums - I played my legs, the table, the steering wheel, and just about anything else I could bang my hands on for most of my life. I started out on a Yamaha DTXpress III Special. I bought this to serve my drumming cravings and to not bother the neighbors or the rest of my family - the kids were much younger then. It was great for learning on, but it was also great for picking up bad habits. I had that kit for about 6 or 7 years (during which time I played it probably 1 - 2 times/week) when I decided that I really wanted to play an acoustic set because of the better feel, articulation, and sound. It took me several months to relearn how to properly hold the sticks and to use more wrist than arm - I'm re-trained now.

When I first began playing my Gretsch kit, I was very self-conscious about people hearing me play. I felt that I was decent enough, but not worthy of being listened to. Now I play at least 5 days/week and I feel much more confident about my playing and couldn't care less if the neighbors hear me. I must sound pretty good - nobody's ever complained or called the cops on me. :)
 
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