Teaching Buzz rolls??

I am having a hard time getting my students to do a properly controlled buzz roll. I understand the mechanics and how to use the rebound to get as many strokes on each hand, but can't seem to get a across correctly. Ideas?
 
They're usually taught in terms of making a buzz by applying pressure; I do it backwards, in terms of decreasing pressure. I start them with a dead stroke- making a normal wrist stroke, but stopping the stick dead against the head- by relaxing their grip very slightly, they can turn that into a buzz. The exercise I have them do to play the dead strokes single-handed while gradually relaxing. Usually in a lesson we'll have to run that process several times per hand.

The other major element besides a quality multiple-bounce stroke is the rhythm. I make sure they play the roll in rhythm even if it's too slow to sound like a continuous roll at first. So if we're working with a page of 8th notes and quarter notes, I might have them buzz the 8th notes so they can learn to make sequences of buzzes and taps slowly.
 
I was taught like this.

First: just do a stroke with one hand and try to get as many rebounds as possible.

With that same stroke play quarter notes, then 8ths, then triplets, then 16ths, then 5 notes per quarter note, then sextuplets, and so on.
 
Every stick has that certain sweet spot, and its based all on the proportions of the stick and its center of mass. While every drummers grip is different, most people I would say like to make the fulcrum at the sweet spot, while other greats such as Steve Gadd or Mike Portnoy seem to hold the stick closer to the back end.

I found that when I teach people how to do a buzz roll, its best to use Vic Firth Sticks. On every Vic stick i've used, the sweet spot is somewhere between the american flag, and the letter "h" in the word "Firth." By making your students use Vic Firth's, you are automatically making the teaching process and learning process that much simpler.

Another thing is that most teachers are under the impression that you must always keep your back fingers on the stick. I standby the notion that keeping all your fingers on at all time is ridiculous. Sure you can keep em on if you want, but its all how you like it.

By allowing them to take their back fingers off and only hold it by their thumbs, forefingers, and maybe middle finger (optional), they will automatically have to squeeze the stick harder. This pressure applied to the stick creates the torque that really brings out the component necessary to get a nice roll/buzz.
 
Short answer: try having them use a harder pad. Specifically a Pipe Band pad. In the meantime, you could also have them apply a Mylar laminate to their existing pads for better definition. I believe this is the material we use on top of our custom pads:

http://www.steveweissmusic.com/product/vic-firth-pad-laminate/vic-firth-drum-sticks

Now the long answer: playing buzzes on a harder surface forces you to apply more pressure and then release that pressure in your fingers more quickly, if you want them to have a better quality sound. That's the first step. The next step is for them to smooth out the pulses hand to hand so that they're not 'pulsy'. Have them do that for a few weeks (or months if they're really patient) and when they sit down on a kit or play a concert snare - their buzz rolls will be like butter! In fact they'll have to lighten up a bit, but as far as smoothness and control, you'll be amazed.

If you're buying a Pipe Band pad I'd suggest either a Cameron MEDIUM:

http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=1960599&showprevnext=1 (Cameron HARD is a little too hard in my opinion)

Or TG Brown Pad; any one of which is fine:

http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2630551&showprevnext=1

I'm sure the other pads are fine on that site, but these are the only ones I've had experience with.

Or you can make one. Either a higher durometer rubber (Shore A 60-90) or a thinner sheet of gum rubber (40A - 50A) or thermoplastic elastomer say, 1/16" - 1/8" (1.6mm - 3.2mm). There are a number of challenges involved, not the least of which is gluing. And again, for better definition, you can apply that Mylar laminate on top.

In addition, to round out the experience, I'd suggest Pipe Band sticks. They're a larger diameter than most drum set sticks and have a very large tip to bring out a higher pitch from the drum. Most are surprisingly light and sound terrible on cymbals. But they do wonders when you're working on buzz rolls.

From the same site, a good all around pipe band stick, the KP2's:

http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=1929602&showprevnext=1

As far as developing the technique for a quality buzz roll, this is my response to a similar question on another thread (I know it starts to look like chain letter spam, but I think it's valid anyway):

Here's something I did last year for someone who was curious about pipe band buzz rolls. Again, in the cellar so as not to wake anyone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGlpTlNx1rE

The technique for this is geared toward highly tensioned Kevlar heads, with a snare strainer under the top head as well as the bottom, so the response is very quick. If you're playing kit, or concert snare, you'll have to adjust your technique accordingly- a bit less pressure.

If you play traditional grip, the left hand thumb points down the stick, and does the majority of “finger” action. The forefinger and middle finger are more or less guides. It’s as if you’re giving someone a left handed handshake. There should be a smooth, gentle curve running from your shoulder, to your elbow, to the back of your hand. In the right hand it’s somewhere between an American grip (45°) and French tympani. The stick is held between the forefinger and thumb with a sizeable gap between them near the joint. The middle and index finger provide all of the action and the pinky is completely off the stick. Sticks are at a 90°-120° looking down at the head, and the elbows are slightly forward (not tucked into your body), so your left wrist isn’t in a position to turn outward (like Spiderman shooting his web!).

This is specialized for pipe band drumming, but can be adapted for other techniques. Keeping that in mind, things that help to make a quality buzz roll:

For a “natural” approach:

“Own” doubles. You can’t have a good closed roll, i.e. buzzed roll, if you have a weak and uneven open roll. Practice them with a triplet (or sextuplet) feel, so the downbeat of each group of 3 doubles shifts from the right to left hand. Take your doubles to your max open tempo (where they’re two distinct strokes) and then substitute a buzz for the doubles. Same number of wrist turns as the doubles, but focus on a smoothness of sound.

3 on a hand. Then 6, 12 & 24. Play 3 at one tempo. When you feel like it, go to 6, then do the same for 12 & 24. Then go back to 3 on a hand but increase the tempo slightly and work through the same exercise. Keep doing it until you hit your max tempo. You can play them dead even in volume or slightly accent the 1st of every 3. Use fingers for this, so there’s only one wrist turn/forearm raise for every 3 strokes. Play with a comfortably high stick height, as this is for endurance as well as control.
Also try this. Start from doubles, increasing tempo until near your max. Switch to 3 on a hand. At your max tempo, switch to buzzes and increase tempos for 10-30 seconds until you hit your max. Take a 30 second break and do it again.

For a “measured” approach:

Play triplet based buzz rolls. Slowly, with a metronome. Push the buzz from the fingers (thumb in the left hand). Begin with “buzzed sevens”- 3 buzzes and a tap. Start with the left. Then the right. Then alternate. Start slowly. It WILL sound dirty and pulsy. That’s OK, since you’re looking for a distinct, quality sound. Then try “buzzed 13s”- 6 buzzes and a tap (or two sets of triplet buzzes and a tap). Then “25s”- 12 sets of buzzes (or four sets of triplet buzzes and a tap). Then a continuous roll- 15 seconds to a minute. They are going to sound dirty, almost harsh with a noticeable gap between hands. As you increase tempo slightly, the gap will go away, but there will still be a pulse in the sound where you put the peak pressure in each hand. Eventually you ease up the pressure and increase the tempo to the point where your roll should sound like tearing cloth (or like a steam pipe bursting when played on a drum). But you’ll still have a triplet motion between hands.

-John

-John
 
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Whats so funny about that statement. I'm afraid that I missed the joke

I believe he had a chuckle that you grouped gadd and portnoy together as greats. Both are great to me, I've got a dream theater tattoo on my forarm but people are picky about using the word 'great' since gadd is one of the godfathers of drumset.
 
They're usually taught in terms of making a buzz by applying pressure; I do it backwards, in terms of decreasing pressure. I start them with a dead stroke- making a normal wrist stroke, but stopping the stick dead against the head- by relaxing their grip very slightly, they can turn that into a buzz. The exercise I have them do to play the dead strokes single-handed while gradually relaxing. Usually in a lesson we'll have to run that process several times per hand.

The other major element besides a quality multiple-bounce stroke is the rhythm. I make sure they play the roll in rhythm even if it's too slow to sound like a continuous roll at first. So if we're working with a page of 8th notes and quarter notes, I might have them buzz the 8th notes so they can learn to make sequences of buzzes and taps slowly.

I like this idea.. think I'll use it with some of my students who tend to overthink the buzz technique. Thank you sir.. "+1" as they say?
 
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