Shell interior treatment?

Messerschmitt

Senior Member
Hey there guys,

I`d like to know what is the difference in sound given by the shell interior treatment. I`ve seen both naked wood, laquered shells, painted shells,etc but never got the chance to hear all of them to be able to make a comparison.
Can anyone enlighten me?
 
The surface finish on the inside of a shell certainly alters the sound. In very simple terms, a rough finish will tend to soften the tone, & a hard smooth finish will brighten the tone.

Many shells were painted to hide poor quality wood & finishing, but this was sometimes marketed as some form of coating with special properties. Personally, I think that's pure BS.

Ultimately, how much, or how a coating will affect the sound of a drum, depends on the drum itself. There's certainly a small benefit to coating the inside of a drum that's to be used in extremes of humidity & temperature, but as most modern shells are so highly processed & well formed, they no longer behave much like wood anyhow. From a roadworthy perspective, that's a good thing.
 
I was actually eager to hear your explanation, KIS, as i know you really know your stuff.

Here`s what i was thinking. As my drum shells are bare naked wood on the inside, i was really thinking they could collect moisture really easy in environments with high humidity such as basements , where i usually practice. Humidity isn`t a good thing for wood, as far as i see it. So i tought about laquering them to seal the pores a little. I also wondered how that will affect the drum tone. For high-quality drum shells i don`t think it would be that much of a difference, but for my basswood(i think) shells, they might just be a good mod. What do you think?
 
My logic tells me that lacquering or poly-ing the insides of your naked drum would make a smoother, harder, more reflective surface, resulting in a brighter sounding drum than before. I would think. If you are merely looking for protection, a linseed oil or a tung oil may do the trick, probably without changing the tone. I would think. These are all guesses because I never tried it. The oil would probably have to be reapplied every so often. I would think.
 
Interesting topic. I'd like to add a question if I may. Drums shells that are lacquered inside and out have essentially sealed up the wood. Will this prohibit the maturing process of the wood?
 
Interesting topic. I'd like to add a question if I may. Drums shells that are lacquered inside and out have essentially sealed up the wood. Will this prohibit the maturing process of the wood?

Great question. I've heard that the difference in aged wood vs newer wood is that the internal lignins (whatever they are) get hardened, transferring vibrations better.
One would think that by making the shell unbreatheable that it would inhibit the process, but I don't really know that to be true.
 
I would venture to say that, although an interior finish might change the sound of the drum, it's gonna be basically so insignificant (unless you do something severe, like fiberglass the interior of the shell) that you're really not going to tell. Not by human ear. Now, got maybe $20K worth of "sound analysis" equipment, then you might. But it would be well worth it, if your practicing in damp environments.​
 
Great question. I've heard that the difference in aged wood vs newer wood is that the internal lignins (whatever they are) get hardened, transferring vibrations better.
One would think that by making the shell unbreatheable that it would inhibit the process, but I don't really know that to be true.

Tough one. I don`t really think it inhibits the process. Think of all the other wooden musical instruments: violins, cellos, guitars.. They are all laquered but still their wood ages with time. I don`t think the aging process is connected with humidity or oxygen contact. But i`m by no means an expert.
 
I have found that most lacquered shells although they look to be natural on the inside do have a thin coat of some kind of clear sealer. A cabinet maker told one time that if one side of the wood is to be painted, varnished, etc you must put something on the other side so the expansion, contraction rates as well as the increase and reduction of moisture due to humidity or lack of will be somewhat equal to keep the wood from warping, twisting and or splitting.
 
i waxed the inside of a 12 inch tom with no discernable difference in the sound... mind you i always thought that drum was dud anyway
 
Years ago I sanded down the clear int of my 3 ply Luds,and applied two coats of polyurethane
satin sealer.

Big damn difference,the int was smooth and glassy and the sound was bright and it seems like tones or partials were at odds,think the sound of a basketball bouncing in an empty gym.

As an aside a fellow came over to the house that was a carpenter and worked as a wood importer,he heard three of my kits,a ludwig with beige paint int,a rogers with grey paint,and an Eames with a clear sealed int,he asked me what was on the int of the drums and I told him and he said that he thought that the eames were sealed in a manner where the pores in the wood were not entirely filled with sealer and that could be why they sounded bigger.
 
The best way to protect your shells is to take a good quality carnuba paste wax and do the inside of the shells and the bearing edges. This will help seal out the moisture but it will not give you a hard reflective surface and will not alter the sound. John
 
I must say, there's some great thinking going on in these posts, & almost every point made is correct :)

Great question. I've heard that the difference in aged wood vs newer wood is that the internal lignins (whatever they are) get hardened, transferring vibrations better.
One would think that by making the shell unbreatheable that it would inhibit the process, but I don't really know that to be true.
All true Larry, & the very reason why many 40+ year old shells sound good, despite their often patchy construction quality.

Interesting topic. I'd like to add a question if I may. Drums shells that are lacquered inside and out have essentially sealed up the wood. Will this prohibit the maturing process of the wood?
Yes it will, but it won't prevent it. Basic drying out (reduction in moisture level) is somewhat different to the drying & eventual crystallisation of lignins.

I have found that most lacquered shells although they look to be natural on the inside do have a thin coat of some kind of clear sealer. A cabinet maker told one time that if one side of the wood is to be painted, varnished, etc you must put something on the other side so the expansion, contraction rates as well as the increase and reduction of moisture due to humidity or lack of will be somewhat equal to keep the wood from warping, twisting and or splitting.
This would be true of thick sections of unprocessed wood (depending on species), but wouldn't really apply to modern ply shells. They're usually so thin compared to the older stuff, & also typically more processed (compressed, heated, etc), that they're inherently very stable, especially when the plies are very thin, as the surface area of the glue bond is huge. Ply shells get their strength by not allowing surfaces to slide in relation to each other. The strength of the whole will always overcome the tendency of an outer or inner ply to move due to normal levels of humidity deviation.


My logic tells me that lacquering or poly-ing the insides of your naked drum would make a smoother, harder, more reflective surface, resulting in a brighter sounding drum than before. I would think. If you are merely looking for protection, a linseed oil or a tung oil may do the trick, probably without changing the tone. I would think. These are all guesses because I never tried it. The oil would probably have to be reapplied every so often. I would think.
This is absolutely 100% accurate, & great advice on the tung oil / teak oil.

I would venture to say that, although an interior finish might change the sound of the drum, it's gonna be basically so insignificant (unless you do something severe, like fiberglass the interior of the shell) that you're really not going to tell. Not by human ear.
True to some extent Harry, but there are caveats. Sure, applying wax or oils to the shell will make almost no difference to the sound. Taking a thin shelled drum, & applying a good few coats of lacquer, will produce a difference in sound that anyone would be able to hear without question. Heavy lacquering does two things. 1/ it adds mass, especially noticeable on a thin shell, but this is the lesser of the two affects. 2/ It typically hardens & smooths the surface, & this can profoundly affect the timbre of the drum.
Two extreme examples would be; taking a thin softwood shell with poor finish, & applying 4/5 coats of lacquer = big difference. Taking a thicker shell made of a very hard wood that's already smooth finished inside, then adding a couple of layers of lacquer, will make almost no difference.

Years ago I sanded down the clear int of my 3 ply Luds,and applied two coats of polyurethane
satin sealer.

Big damn difference,the int was smooth and glassy and the sound was bright and it seems like tones or partials were at odds,think the sound of a basketball bouncing in an empty gym.
Exactly what I would expect, & fit's with my explanation to Harry. What may surprise you however, is that applying stuff to the outside of certain shells, can make a noticeable difference too, but instead of surface finish being the biggest determining factor, it's mass that becomes the dominant variable. Again, only applies to thin shells, & even then, more so with higher quality shells.
 
All true Larry, & the very reason why many 40+ year old shells sound good, despite their often patchy construction quality.

I was awaiting some reply from Andy in regards to this discussion as I own a Tama Artstar 2 with an internal coating, my kit is 23 years old and still sound good to me, so I'm pleased with Andy's comment :)

.
 

Attachments

  • Artstar2 shells.jpg
    Artstar2 shells.jpg
    47.6 KB · Views: 2,439
Hello all!
Not to open another thread... I have a question.
I own a 2000 Rockstar set and I came to idea of removing wrap and paint the shells with silver spray and clear lacquer on the outside and on the inside just matt black spray.

Insides are somewhat scuffed and been treated with wood filler and it shows so I'd like to hide that. I also like the look of a non-glossy, black interior.

The set sounds good to me, it's been through a lot and hasn't failed me yet.
But over the years I've came across new toms, bass drums... which were in different finish so that's why I'd like to have them all identical.

Questions are:
- Can I apply a coat of silver spray on wood and then a few coats of clear coat for wood?
- Can I apply a coat of black mat spray on the inside and not treat inside with anything after that?
- Do you have any advice of which kind of sprays and lacquers should I use?

I don't think it'll affect the sound much. If I ever change StarCast mounting systems to regular RIMS I'm sure the toms will sing much more.

Thanks!
 
I was actually eager to hear your explanation, KIS, as i know you really know your stuff.

Here`s what i was thinking. As my drum shells are bare naked wood on the inside, i was really thinking they could collect moisture really easy in environments with high humidity such as basements , where i usually practice. Humidity isn`t a good thing for wood, as far as i see it. So i tought about laquering them to seal the pores a little. I also wondered how that will affect the drum tone. For high-quality drum shells i don`t think it would be that much of a difference, but for my basswood(i think) shells, they might just be a good mod. What do you think?

You are correct. Softer woods like basswood do benefit from sealing with a hard sealer. The resonant sound of the shell won't change, but the projected sound from the inside of the shell will sound a bit more like harder woods like birch or maple. I've use a few different sealers on poplar and basswood. Oil paints, resembling Gretsch silver sealer has less of an impact compared to harder lacquers. My favourite all around is satin finish polyurethane.
 
Back
Top