Genius drummers and what they have done.

starkeydrums

starkeydrums

Member
Hey everyone. I've got a big project for honors 12 English about what a genius is, who is one, and what has said genius done. Since i don't really connect as well to anything besides drumming, i decided to have my genius be a drummer.

the only problem is, i cant think of any real genius drummers. Now, i havent done any researching on any drummers (like in-deep researching to why they are geniuses) mind you.

i was thinking Neil Peart, Buddy Rich, even John Bonham. If anyone has a personal favorite, feel free to post him and what hes done.

TL;DR: i need a genius drummer and what he has done to be a drumming genius. ie: what has he added to the drumming community to progress it.
 
Well, of couse genius applies to the brain, and you know, us drummers are really a bunch of pea-brained ape-men at heart........................;-}

I had a wise old elder tell me once "when we quit being students and graduate to become experts, we actually become neither". I agree with that, and believe Albert Einstein would have even scoffed at the genius or expert label. But besides all of that, I suppose you mean who are the greatest drummers (this will start a great fight around here)? Or the most innovative?
 
Strangelove said:
Well, of couse genius applies to the brain, and you know, us drummers are really a bunch of pea-brained ape-men at heart........................;-}

I had a wise old elder tell me once "when we quit being students and graduate to become experts, we actually become neither". I agree with that, and believe Albert Einstein would have even scoffed at the genius or expert label. But besides all of that, I suppose you mean who are the greatest drummers (this will start a great fight around here)? Or the most innovative?
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not so much the greatest, but the ones who have revolutionized drumming. the ones who have contributed the most to the progression of what it is now.

I'm not sure if this is coming off how I'm thinking of it. if its still unclear, feel free to say so.
 
starkeydrums said:
not so much the greatest, but the ones who have revolutionized drumming. the ones who have contributed the most to the progression of what it is now.

I'm not sure if this is coming off how I'm thinking of it. if its still unclear, feel free to say so.
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I'd say you'd have to go further back into history.

Someone like Zutty Singleton or Baby Dodds would be interesting, as they were among the 1st generation of people to actually play a drum set. Although this could also be tough, as who was the 1st person, and who inspired these early pioneers has been lost to history.

Gene Krupa is an obvious choice, as he was the 1st person to ever play a bass drum on a recording, and is credit with establishing many aspects of drumming that would go on to be taken for granted for years to come.

Papa Jo Jones is another on, who popularized the concept of the ride cymbals, and the use if hi-hats over the preferred low boy of the day. Also was the 1st drummer to make use of the left side floor tom.

Louie Bellson was the 1st person to play double bass drums.

Or go with someone like Bill Ludwig who produced the 1st practical drum pedal that allowed drum set players to be what they are, and of course, founded Ludwig drums in the process.

Or Armand Zildjian, who worked closely with many name players to develop cymbal concepts we all take for granted today, but didn't exist previously.
 
The first person who comes to mind is Tony Williams. He was a Charlie Parker-level sea change type of player. You'll have to do your own research into why, but that should be easy- there's ample writing available supporting that. The Miles Davis autobiography would be a good place to start.

Really though genius is not necessarily synonymous with "greatest innovator", or with being brainy-seeming, a la Bill Bruford. Try doing Jim Keltner- you'll be forced to make it more of a character piece and really think about what genius means; there are no easy hooks like "he invented Spoxe", or has a flair for science fiction, you know?
 
This has got me thinking. "Genius" drummer? Was there ever a genius drummer? Plenty of brilliant drummers, sure, but genius? I mean, how would you know?

It bothers me. Genius composers, okay, Beethoven was a genius some say, but who's the Beethoven of the drums?

Come to think of it, are there any genius instrumentalists? I don't mean technical brilliance or innovative ingenuity, I'm talking about full-blown genius.

What if Einstein had been a drummer instead of a scientist? Would we still consider him to be a genius?

Ah, what the heck. My vote goes to Elvin Jones.
 
con struct said:
Ah, what the heck. My vote goes to Elvin Jones.
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Same here for me Jay... with Tony in a very close spot at 2nd in my book or even Roy for that matter.

It's easy now to look at all the truly great players that followed like Jack {who I think of as one of THE great musical thinkers of the instrument} but at the time one needs to remember the guys who grabbed the ball and created the concepts and ideas stepping way out of the box first for what the later guys extended on even seen today.
 
con struct said:
This has got me thinking. "Genius" drummer? Was there ever a genius drummer? Plenty of brilliant drummers, sure, but genius? I mean, how would you know?

It bothers me. Genius composers, okay, Beethoven was a genius some say, but who's the Beethoven of the drums?

Come to think of it, are there any genius instrumentalists? I don't mean technical brilliance or innovative ingenuity, I'm talking about full-blown genius.

What if Einstein had been a drummer instead of a scientist? Would we still consider him to be a genius?

Ah, what the heck. My vote goes to Elvin Jones.
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this question has been bothering me for a few days now, a lot of people throw the word genius around ,but how do you determine genius if you aren't a genius yourself? seem's to me only a peer intelect could determine a genius. and jojo mayer just cause i was thinking of him at this time lol.
 
Genius drummer, ha! That's like asking if there are any genius telemarketers.
Not sure if it applies, genius is a bold statement.
 
I don't think Ringo was a genius, but he made a major contribution to drumming - matched grip, use of drum risers, deeper tuning of toms, drums broken fills ... there's probably more. A very creative guy.

Bill Bruford was another innovativer, bringing jazz drumming elements into prog, using a flat ergonomic setup with remote hi hat from open-handed play, setting up toms differently (not high to low as almost everyone does), incorporating electronic drums into a regular kit and bringing that into his jazz group, Earthworks. Then there's his much-loved unique popping snare sound.
 
Dunno... Maybe Virgil Donati for pushing the boundaries of modern drumming? He has the Einstein hair cut down also lol!
 
larryace said:
Genius drummer, ha! That's like asking if there are any genius telemarketers.
Not sure if it applies, genius is a bold statement.
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Nah. Genius ain't so special. It's supposed to be around the top one or two % of IQs. That means there'd be a few hundred thousand geniuses in Australia alone. Millions in the world. Probably lots of cleaners and unemployed bums amongst them too. Einstein was a high genius - another animal again, like Sheldon and Leonard in the Big Bang Theory :)

I think we can take "genius" in the context of the thread to be the cream of the crop - the greatest players who have inspired and thrilled those around them.

Now THAT kind of gift is actually cool :)
 
Genius is a term thrown around far to easily. It actually means someone with an IQ above 160. Which means an intellectual capacity for abstract thought and problem solving. My dad is one (try growing up with someone for whom everything is obviously simple). Both my parents were in Mensa but my mom was below genius, although she was the artistic one.

Baby Dobbs, Kenny Clarke, Papa Jo, folks who took the instrument places it hadn't been were tremendous innovators. Don't know if they were actual geniuses though. Maybe it takes a genius or near genius brain to maintain complex subdivisions like Vinnie. I've no idea how he scores on an IQ test but it's probably pretty above average.

Even though he's not typically considered a drummer, some folks call James Brown a genius for the way he created very complex rhythmic syncopations. Starkeydrums, if you don't know, JB had all these arrangements in his head and would sing out each player's part to them. No matter how awkward or out of time each guy's thing sounded to them, they learned that when they all played it together the way James sang it to them, magic happened.
 
I'm going to assume that a "genius" drummer would be the one that someone thinks is best, so I would pick Tony Williams or Elvin Jones
 
"Genius" is a term which is used much too frequently. I do think, however, that there have been musical geniuses in the 20th century. I think Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis would fit that category. Also there is a case to be made for Ray Charles and maybe even Paul Simon and Stevie Wonder. For drummers to be considered genius they would have to transcend the instrument and, while maintaining the highest level of drumming ability, actually bring something to the world of music around them. I include Miles, for example, because he led the development of jazz over several decades. In drumming, I agree that there is a strong case to be made for Elvin and Tony and maybe even Max Roach. I think if it was me, however, I would have to go with Gadd. From the Hustle, to 50 ways, to the Leprechaun to Aja, to Chuck E's in Love and thousands of other recordings he brought something new and musical to the session every time. Without Gadd, much of what we consider normal would not exist.

But if not Gadd, then its got to be .. . . . . .! Thoughts?

Paul
 
Well, Nicolo Paganini is considered to be a genius virtuoso and innovator on the violin, possessing super-human technique never before witnessed.

So who's the Nicolo Paganini of the drums?
 
con struct said:
Well, Nicolo Paganini is considered to be a genius virtuoso and innovator on the violin, possessing super-human technique never before witnessed.

So who's the Nicolo Paganini of the drums?
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Well if you're looking specifically at the pure genius of technique which doesn't include musical ground breaking conceptual elements with the instrument {far more important to me} i'd have to say Buddy Rich or someone like Dennis Chambers who makes the impossible that can be done with 4 limbs working together look like a relaxing walk in the park :}
 
Steamer said:
Well if you're looking specifically at the pure genius of technique which doesn't include musical ground breaking conceptual elements with the instrument {far more important to me} i'd have to say Buddy Rich or someone like Dennis Chambers who makes the impossible that can be done with 4 limbs working together look like a relaxing walk in the park :}
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Yeah, I was thinking Buddy Rich too as a matter of fact.
 
That's funny, because an awesome podcast on iTunes, StuffYouShouldKnow, recently had a podacast on geniuses. From this, i learned that a genius is really an individual who revolutionized whatever they specialized in. So just think, what drummers have made significant developments in modern drumming?
 
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