Concentration Question

M

Mike_In_KC

Guest
So the guys I have been jamming with lately love to play Green Onions by Booker T and MGs - great tune and I love to play it as it is pretty easy for a newb to handle. My problem is maintaining focus while playing essentially the same thing over and over for upwards of five to seven minutes - the guitar players love the groove so they extend the song. What do you guys do when you are playing an "easy" song that does not require a lot of extra stuff to keep you on your toes? I tried to add some "stuff" to the groove but it just did not work - Mr Jackson seemed to get it right with his rendition :)

MM
 
It's not just about making your limbs 'fall' in the right place. Really FOCUS on getting that groove right. Is everything balanced, maybe throw in some nice ghost notes. Work on some dynamical effects in the groove, lock in with the bass player. Even if you're playing a really simple groove, you can make it interesting.

You need to really look deeper into the playing and if you keep getting bored, maybe get a new band dude!
 
You said you were a beginner. Playing for the song takes years for most of us to grasp. But you can occupy your mind if you really focus on playing perfect time. And you can add your own subtle touches every few bars to keep yourself interested.

Check out Chad Smith in Blood Sex Sugar Magic, you'll love the way he keeps the beat but makes it tasteful with a little grace note here, hi hat accent there etc
 
Check out Chad Smith in Blood Sex Sugar Magic, you'll love the way he keeps the beat but makes it tasteful with a little grace note here, hi hat accent there etc

Nice example -

Side note - Has anyone ever seen Chad Smith and Will Ferrell in the same room?
 
Side note - Has anyone ever seen Chad Smith and Will Ferrell in the same room?

Word is Will challenged him to a 'drum off' in the near future. They have been in the same room.

Green Onions - I'd say play it straight, ride cymbal, the WHOLE way through. Thats the challenge, to stay in that pocket and not to add. The Al Jackson way.
 
Sounds silly but if you love the song, then you can just enjoy listening to it whilst you play it as its not stretching you musically.

Making something feel great playing simple stuff just feels good and should make you smile.

Having said that there is a reason this tune is more fun for them to play than for you. It is far more involved playing their parts than it is your part!

I'll get flamed for this, but I don't totally agree that Jackson got it 100% right. I suspect it was decided to just have the drums loop simply.

I would add an "a" with the ride, following the bass line at the end of each "4". Make it swing a little more.

Like Torkerz mentioned throw in some nice ghost notes and maybe a simple triplet snare and floor tom unison thing in the last measure (I'm calling a count of 4 a measure here but I realise measure and bar essentially mean the same thing) of the bar, maybe with a snare on the "a" coming back in to match the guitar stab? Something that won't put them off but will still sound good.
 
Word is Will challenged him to a 'drum off' in the near future. They have been in the same room.

Green Onions - I'd say play it straight, ride cymbal, the WHOLE way through. Thats the challenge, to stay in that pocket and not to add. The Al Jackson way.

Correct, you are! Here's a link to a post about it. Ferrell says it will be “the greatest drum vs. cowbell showdown the world has ever seen.”

>> http://www.samaritanmag.com/musicians/date-will-ferrell-rhcp-chad-smith-300k-drum-battle-still-tba

- Mark
 
Playing time is boring. Laying down a groove is exhilarating.

I love locking in with a bass player and playing the simplest time keeping on the ride. Not just playing even notes and "phoning it in" if you will like a human metronome. But really pointing that ride sound and underpinning the time; like I'm lifting the time up. And if it really comes together I feel these waves of sound that start to become hypnotic. So when a guitarist is playing a solo you can tell they're inspired and feeling it, to the point where it feels like you're driving and creating the solo with every ping of the ride. We're talking about technically simple stuff that only requires you to listen and be committed to the music. I remember reading something Bob Moses once said, "What is more abstract than sound?" It shouldn't require a flurry of notes and fills to keep your mind occupied.

To me there's no better feeling than that look on other players' faces when they're playing effortlessly on account of my playing. I don't confuse it with players leaning on me because they can't keep a steady pulse. Though the latter situation is rare because I'm always playing with people who are better than me.
 
It's about maintaining "the chant".

Also, here's a great way to describe what it is we do. Think about carrying a glass of liquid across a room without spilling any of it. If you're staring at it chances are you'll make a mess. That's how to play a beat.

Playing in front of people is like having a bucket of water balanced on your head. If you screw up too bad you'll end up getting wet. :D

So when you play a song in a band with others on a stage in a crowd, it's like carrying that liquid in your hand and the bucket of water on your head up a set of stairs, down the stairs, through the busy center of the restaurant with others bumping into you... all the while not spilling anything.

:D
 
I'll get flamed for this, but I don't totally agree that Jackson got it 100% right. I suspect it was decided to just have the drums loop simply.

Regardless of whether Jackson "got it 100% right," I'm fairly certain that he's the one who made the decision to play it that way. That said, for whatever it's worth, he was a different drummer live than in the studio--he often played a bit more loosely and with more fills in a live performance. Check out this clip to see that even HE didn't always play it like the recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MWu6LhWQ8

Ed
 
Regardless of whether Jackson "got it 100% right," I'm fairly certain that he's the one who made the decision to play it that way. That said, for whatever it's worth, he was a different drummer live than in the studio--he often played a bit more loosely and with more fills in a live performance. Check out this clip to see that even HE didn't always play it like the recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MWu6LhWQ8

Ed

THAT was just what I needed to hear.... Side Note - Has there EVER been a whiter audience ever? They almost look like they are scared!
 
THAT was just what I needed to hear.... Side Note - Has there EVER been a whiter audience ever? They almost look like they are scared!

I thought you might find that helpful. :)

As for the audience, this was from a performance in Oslo, Norway. Steve Cropper has said that in London they were mobbed on this tour, but many of the other audiences in Europe were fairly sedate (at least at first). I think they hadn't seen anything like it before, and even though they liked it, they weren't quite sure how to respond.

That footage was taken from a really cool DVD of the Stax/Volt Revue Live in Oslo in 1967 (although this performance was an alternate take of "Green Onions" to the one that's on the main part of the concert). There's great footage of Al Jackson and the rest of Booker T. and the MG's backing up the Mar Keys, Arthur Conley, Sam and Dave, Eddie Floyd, and Otis Redding.
 
I thought you might find that helpful. :)

As for the audience, this was from a performance in Oslo, Norway. Steve Cropper has said that in London they were mobbed on this tour, but many of the other audiences in Europe were fairly sedate (at least at first). I think they hadn't seen anything like it before, and even though they liked it, they weren't quite sure how to respond.

That footage was taken from a really cool DVD of the Stax/Volt Revue Live in Oslo in 1967 (although this performance was an alternate take of "Green Onions" to the one that's on the main part of the concert). There's great footage of Al Jackson and the rest of Booker T. and the MG's backing up the Mar Keys, Arthur Conley, Sam and Dave, Eddie Floyd, and Otis Redding.

It is also seeing Steve Cropper and Donald Dunn as young men. I only knew them from their Blues Brothers days...
 
Playing time is boring. Laying down a groove is exhilarating.

I love locking in with a bass player and playing the simplest time keeping on the ride. Not just playing even notes and "phoning it in" if you will like a human metronome. But really pointing that ride sound and underpinning the time; like I'm lifting the time up. And if it really comes together I feel these waves of sound that start to become hypnotic. So when a guitarist is playing a solo you can tell they're inspired and feeling it, to the point where it feels like you're driving and creating the solo with every ping of the ride. We're talking about technically simple stuff that only requires you to listen and be committed to the music. I remember reading something Bob Moses once said, "What is more abstract than sound?" It shouldn't require a flurry of notes and fills to keep your mind occupied.

To me there's no better feeling than that look on other players' faces when they're playing effortlessly on account of my playing. I don't confuse it with players leaning on me because they can't keep a steady pulse. Though the latter situation is rare because I'm always playing with people who are better than me.

I love this post. Spoken by someone who clearly understands the feeling that the hypnotic groove can create. That right there is the difference between being in the zone and just playing the notes. Just lay back. You don't have to impress anyone with "creative" drumming, and you're NOT boring. (not aimed at you John) It takes a bit of security on the drummers part to understand these things. Trying to create a trance state requires you to be able to not waver for 10 minutes straight. It's easy when you let go of all the crap (I'm boring, I can't get creative, I can't express my "art" lol) This is the drummers time to listen for spaces in the solos for possible custom tailored ghost work, make eye contact with the crowd, simply get lost in the trance, or all of the above. Great post John.
 
Look at you! Making posts without links to tips! :) Someone is happy about that I am sure.

MM

I am I am! See I knew he was a good guy ;)

Regardless of whether Jackson "got it 100% right," I'm fairly certain that he's the one who made the decision to play it that way. That said, for whatever it's worth, he was a different drummer live than in the studio--he often played a bit more loosely and with more fills in a live performance. Check out this clip to see that even HE didn't always play it like the recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MWu6LhWQ8

Ed

Yeah he may have made the decision to play it that way in the studio. But man I would pay money for this performance you posted to be on record instead!
 
I am I am! See I knew he was a good guy ;)



Yeah he may have made the decision to play it that way in the studio. But man I would pay money for this performance you posted to be on record instead!

If that's the case, you might want to check out some live albums featuring Al Jackson, Jr.'s drumming (I look for any opportunity to talk about this stuff). Here are some of them (all of them except the last one are from that same Stax/Volt tour):

Otis Redding - Live in Europe (my favorite live album of all time)
The Stax Volt Revue vol. 1 - Live in London
The Stax Volt Revue vol. 2 - Live in Paris
The Stax Volt Revue vol. 3 - Hit the Road Stax
Booker T. and the MGs/The Mar-Keys - Back to Back
Funky Broadway: Stax Volt Revue Live at the 5/4 Ballroom

An interesting studio album that contains a little bit busier drumming from Al is Isaac Hayes' debut album, Presenting Isaac Hayes. It's really just a loose jam album, with just Isaac on piano and vocals, Al on drums, and Duck Dunn on bass. It was apparently recorded late at night after the Stax Christmas Party, when the musicians were a little (or perhaps a lot) inebriated. Al Bell (the Stax vice president) had been trying to talk Hayes into recording an album under his own name, and Hayes had been reluctant, but after having a few drinks on that night, he was game, so Bell seized the moment and headed down to the studio with them. The results are unrehearsed and unpolished, but you do get to hear Al in a looser studio setting than normal. Here's the title cut (Hayes apparently hadn't gotten around to writing the lyrics yet, so he just sort of moans the melody throughout it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSIfqXmiyBY
 
There's plenty of songs that feature and call for extremely simple drum progressions.

We can all say it's boring, or it needs more... But here's the thing. Doing it the simplistic way and making it sound good is harder than just embellishing or making it sound good by adding to the groove.

Someone here a while back posted something about how hard it is to just play the money beat, on your own, for 5 full minutes and really make it sound good without adding fills, flair or anything really. This is a huge skill to have in the toolbox, regardless how often you end up playing the same thing for 5 min in your drumming career.
 
Someone here a while back posted something about how hard it is to just play the money beat, on your own, for 5 full minutes and really make it sound good without adding fills, flair or anything really. This is a huge skill to have in the toolbox, regardless how often you end up playing the same thing for 5 min in your drumming career.

Yep, if I recall the example they used is from a drum clinic (of maybe Copeland?). he played the money beat 3 mins straight...suggesting how few drummers could or would choose to do it (without temptation to embellish it here or there) . Dunno ,maybe it was another example.

Ever since I read that, I try it occasionally, and for me it is very hard to hold steady and not embellish even a little bit.
 
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