kicking out band member

mxracer591

Junior Member
hey guys, my band is having a dilemma. We've been together for about a year, and are just now getting to the point where we are starting to get some amount of recognition and actually getting shows booked and whatnot. One of the guitar players is, to put it nicely, a douche bag on certain occasions. He has been a fairly big part of the music writing process, and most of the stuff he writes, everyone likes, he has shaped our sound considerably. The problem lies in how he interacts with us, and the way he acts on facebook and the like. he is pretty openly racist, and homophobic... which i don't really understand, but he has made those type of remarks openly on facebook. the other day, he told a few people they weren't allowed at our shows anymore, because he had personal issues with them, and claimed the whole band felt that way. None of us had a problem with them at all. It sounds like a very easy decision based on the evidence I've given, but it really isn't. The problems we have is, for one, no one wants to tell him the bad news. No one knows for sure how he will react, hell, I wouldn't really put it past him to go crazy and try to fight us, as much as he claims that we are all brothers, this band is literally all he has. He lives at home, has no money, and no car. We don't know what we would do with the material that we already have, obviously of which he has written a lot of. As far as a replacement, we know a few people that could possibly fit, but that's really the least of our worries right this minute. I'd rather just have one guitarist then deal with this guy anymore. I've probably ranted a little bit because i'm quite frustrated about the whole situation, and wanted to get a few different opinions/ideas.
 
Time to man-up and take care of business. If he's alienating others and making it look like you all are in agreement that's just bad ju-ju and you have to separate.

This is that classic textbook example of working with the self-destructive genius: it doesn't work out. Start writing your own stuff and cut him loose. Life is too short to be adjusting around one of these types of people, and if he's making you look bad in the process, then you gotta move quick before he has everyone convinced that all of you are racist homophobes. This guy sounds toxic.
 
Time to man-up and take care of business. If he's alienating others and making it look like you all are in agreement that's just bad ju-ju and you have to separate.

This is that classic textbook example of working with the self-destructive genius: it doesn't work out. Start writing your own stuff and cut him loose. Life is too short to be adjusting around one of these types of people, and if he's making you look bad in the process, then you gotta move quick before he has everyone convinced that all of you are racist homophobes. This guy sounds toxic.
Nothing more to be said. There is no discussion on the decision IMO. However, there is one route you can take that offers him some hope, & that's to call him on his behaviour, & tell him the only way he can stay in the band is to immediately change his ways, & issue an open apology on Facebook. One more repeat of his behaviour, & he's out instantly. He probably won't respond well to this, but you can hold your head up high in the knowledge you played fair.
 
As somebody who's been kicked out of bands and had to deliver the bad news to other people, trust me in saying you just have to tell him. You can't let him think he's in the band, if in everybody else's mind, he isn't. And trust me, he wont like it. Nobody does. But it has to be heard. You have to tell him the reasons why it isn't working out, and who knows, after some time, he may work on his issues, and be able to come back. But if it isn't working for the majority, it won't work period.
 
The other approach I've seen people take is someone just quits. Then another and another until no one is left. Let things sit for a couple/few weeks, band gets back together, possibly under a new name with new material - but this time without Mr. Toxic. Sounds a little chickenshit, but people do it all the time. He may figure it out, or not, but who cares, right?

Personally, I can tolerate a fair amount in a talented bandmate, but to me, he's crossed the line with the racist/homophobe bit. I really hate that. Especially since he's taken it upon himself to "represent" the rest of the band with those views. I'd have no trouble kicking him to the curb or throwing him under the bus, and starting over with new material and another unsullied band name.
 
Teamwork is everything. You have to be able to work together. Folks have to be focused on the good of the band/team rather than themselves and be able to put aside their personal agendas when necessary. One bad apple can bring down an entire group. Not only with what they do, but it spreads distention and other problems start cropping up that would have been handleable otherwise. No amount of "talent" is worth it. Those extremely talented folks with issues always end up imploding, and often take down good people with them. It may look like a ride upwards for awhile, but the roller coaster will just keep going up and down until it comes off the tracks. You don't want to be there when that happens.

I got a call for a casual the other day. Someone was trying to get one of these folks on track (again). When I found out what the gig was, I passed. Seen this cat destroy himself so many times I can't count. Amazing natural talent, but everyone that's tried to rehab him and ride the wave has been caught in a mess. Not worth the grief to be associated with another try. Only a matter of time.
 
If you can sum up his flaws in a sentence or two, maybe it's easy enough for you to tell the guy where he's going wrong and see if he can change.

Sometimes ppl deserve a chance and just can't figure it out for themselves...
 
hey guys, my band is having a dilemma. We've been together for about a year, and are just now getting to the point where we are starting to get some amount of recognition and actually getting shows booked and whatnot. One of the guitar players is, to put it nicely, a douche bag on certain occasions. He has been a fairly big part of the music writing process, and most of the stuff he writes, everyone likes, he has shaped our sound considerably. The problem lies in how he interacts with us, and the way he acts on facebook and the like. he is pretty openly racist, and homophobic... which i don't really understand, but he has made those type of remarks openly on facebook. the other day, he told a few people they weren't allowed at our shows anymore, because he had personal issues with them, and claimed the whole band felt that way. None of us had a problem with them at all. It sounds like a very easy decision based on the evidence I've given, but it really isn't. The problems we have is, for one, no one wants to tell him the bad news. No one knows for sure how he will react, hell, I wouldn't really put it past him to go crazy and try to fight us, as much as he claims that we are all brothers, this band is literally all he has. He lives at home, has no money, and no car. We don't know what we would do with the material that we already have, obviously of which he has written a lot of. As far as a replacement, we know a few people that could possibly fit, but that's really the least of our worries right this minute. I'd rather just have one guitarist then deal with this guy anymore. I've probably ranted a little bit because i'm quite frustrated about the whole situation, and wanted to get a few different opinions/ideas.

Talk to him about it.
That's the adult way to deal with situations like this.
Give him a chance to change...I've seen people change, hell I've changed some opinions over the years myself as I've matured.
Failing that...I agree with the earlier 'chickenshit' method...because I myself am chickenshit...mutually ditch the band then reform when the shitstorm has died down :)
However it cuts though...you risk losing a friend and that's hard.
I have one or two strongly racist friends as I live in a North of England milltown with a high Asian population which causes problems...I don't subscribe to their views and tell them so but, hell, everyone's entitled to their opinion/views and I wouldn't cease a friendship because one of my pals' views are stupidly fucked up
 
It may be easier to explain to him that racism and homophobia isn't acceptable and he needs to change or you will throw him out of the band. This way the choice is then his, if he refuses to change, bang he's gone. Be strong together and speak together as a band to him, "this is what we feel", he can't argue with that.

That conversation will be far easier than the "You're fire" we've already decided decision.
 
If I was in those same circumstances, I would give him One verbal warning. I would state that his personal feeling or issues are his alone and should not be broadcast to his band members, following or face book account. As a band you're are starting to "gel" and don't need these issues to get in your way. Also tell him this is his only warning about this situation. The word "fired" doesn't even have to be spoken now because if he is intelligent and can put two and two together, he should get the point. Another thing, don't gang up on him, I've always handled situations like these on a one to one basis.

If he continues to act like an ass, fire his.

Dennis
 
... he is pretty openly racist, and homophobic...

He lives at home, has no money, and no car.

Join the dots ... he feels like he's being left behind, his ego is deflated so he builds himself up by attacking those whom he perceives to be below him.

The trouble for him will be that the narrative (gays and blacks are "losers") doesn't match the reality, given that George Michael and Jimmy Seals are highly talented and successful, filthy rich, don't live at home with Mum and Dad and I expect they have at least one car and perhaps someone to drive it for them.

In my experience prejudice comes in packages - almost always racists and phobes are misogynist as well. It will take an epiphany for this guy to get real IMO, and I'm not sure I'd rely on that. I'd be saying goodbye to him, but I have no tolerance for that kind of meaningless stupidity. Life's too short to deal with the messes created by toxic people. Hopefully he's not a bunny boiler ...
 
Nothing more to be said. There is no discussion on the decision IMO. However, there is one route you can take that offers him some hope, & that's to call him on his behaviour, & tell him the only way he can stay in the band is to immediately change his ways, & issue an open apology on Facebook. One more repeat of his behaviour, & he's out instantly. He probably won't respond well to this, but you can hold your head up high in the knowledge you played fair.

Lets imagine a scenario where you don't act and things continue to build, and he continues to act like a tool.

You make it, get some exposure and then his predudices come to light. It will bring down a media shit storm.

As Bo said and Andy agreed, man up and deal with it, because its a cancer that will eat away and kill the band in any case if it's not dealt with.
 
hey guys, my band is having a dilemma. We've been together for about a year, and are just now getting to the point where we are starting to get some amount of recognition and actually getting shows booked and whatnot. One of the guitar players is, to put it nicely, a douche bag on certain occasions. He has been a fairly big part of the music writing process, and most of the stuff he writes, everyone likes, he has shaped our sound considerably. The problem lies in how he interacts with us, and the way he acts on facebook and the like. he is pretty openly racist, and homophobic... which i don't really understand, but he has made those type of remarks openly on facebook. the other day, he told a few people they weren't allowed at our shows anymore, because he had personal issues with them, and claimed the whole band felt that way. None of us had a problem with them at all. It sounds like a very easy decision based on the evidence I've given, but it really isn't. The problems we have is, for one, no one wants to tell him the bad news. No one knows for sure how he will react, hell, I wouldn't really put it past him to go crazy and try to fight us, as much as he claims that we are all brothers, this band is literally all he has. He lives at home, has no money, and no car. We don't know what we would do with the material that we already have, obviously of which he has written a lot of. As far as a replacement, we know a few people that could possibly fit, but that's really the least of our worries right this minute. I'd rather just have one guitarist then deal with this guy anymore. I've probably ranted a little bit because i'm quite frustrated about the whole situation, and wanted to get a few different opinions/ideas.

His claim that you're all brothers and that the band is all he has may be enough to tip the scales,if he is threatened with losing both.

He somehow thinks you're all kindred spirits,and he speaks for all of you.Let him know under no circumstances that any of you share his racist homophobic beliefs,and that he dosen't speak for the band,especially when it comes to baning certain people from shows.

Let him also know that any further violation WILL result in his ass getting kicked to the curb.

If you're worried about him flipping out and having to fight him,well the rest of the band should be there to deliver the bad news.If he decides to fight all of you ,then man up,and kick his but,and have him arrested.If he throws the first punch,It's self defence.

It sounds like you're all having second thoughts,either because:
1) you think he makes a valid contribution
2) you feel sorry for him,and he's a friend
3) all of you are afraid of him

The only acceptable reason for keeping his butt is .........wait for it.....thats right ,number one.

Life's to short.You guys are in your 20's yes?You're young men,not a bunch of 17 year old drama queens(I hope).....cowboy up.:)

Steve B
 
Or you could take the opposite approach, let him do whatever he want, creating a ton of controversy, which gets the band attention.
 
Or you could take the opposite approach, let him do whatever he want, creating a ton of controversy, which gets the band attention.

This means encourage him to talk about his beliefs on stage. Just make sure he only represents himself and not the band by saying, "I" and not "we".
 
If his behavior is unacceptable and causes this much concern among the other bandmembers, exactly what is the holdup?

More to the point, if his behavior is this reprehensible, do the rest of you really want to be painted with the same brush? Do you need to be friends with someone with this viewpoint so badly?

Plenty more guitarists where that one came from. Heave ho.
 
Talk to him about it.
That's the adult way to deal with situations like this.
Give him a chance to change...I've seen people change, hell I've changed some opinions over the years myself as I've matured.
Failing that...I agree with the earlier 'chickenshit' method...because I myself am chickenshit...mutually ditch the band then reform when the shitstorm has died down :)
However it cuts though...you risk losing a friend and that's hard.
I have one or two strongly racist friends as I live in a North of England milltown with a high Asian population which causes problems...I don't subscribe to their views and tell them so but, hell, everyone's entitled to their opinion/views and I wouldn't cease a friendship because one of my pals' views are stupidly fucked up

On the one hand, I can understand this point of view. But it severely clashes with my "you can't fly with the eagles when you hang out with the turkeys" philosophy. I would love for people to change, and the world to change, for the better, but when it's so glaringly obvious that some people have no hope, why waste the time trying? I've pondered often some what if situations if I had stayed or went, and I think naively thinking things will get better just set me back. At my age, I tend to take no prisoners and show even less mercy. And in terms of musicians, unfortunately we're a dime-a-dozen, so there are plenty of them out there to choose from. When you offer money, like I have, there's even more to choose from.

Sounds mean, huh?
 
Sounds mean, huh?

Nope...sounds like life. So many musicians in the world, and so many of them have their own agendas, issues, abilities and goals. Your guitarist, by your explanation, mx, sounds like someone that I wouldn't want to be associated with, and certainly not someone I'd want to have a permanent place in my musical history. Think about it....do you really want to be remembered 20 years down the line for being in that band with the racist d-bag guitar player? Or worse...what if he implicates you through association?
Man, I could think of a million reasons to kick this guy to the curb. And there are a million guitar players out there.
 
well, after reading the responses... everyone pretty much agrees with me. today, after i talked to our vocalist about it (he's been friends with him pretty much all of their lives) he said that he would talk to him about it. Him and the bass player (also long time friend) had a conversation with him about all the stuff that's been bothering us. Supposedly, he seemed sincere when he in a nutshell said "i'm sorry, i will work on these things." I guess we'll see for now. The main reason for us to keep him is basically that he does make a valid contribution to the band, he's probably responsible for 60-70% of how we sound, and everyone seems to dig it. I guess we'll see how it works out, I'm pretty sure he knows he's being watched over pretty closely. I personally could really care less if he's racist or homophobic, I don't agree with it... but I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just know like quite a few people said, it could very easily bring us down if those views come out into the open.
 
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