are the constant release and heel toe techniques the same?

I think there is a lot of difference. I'm working on both and not proficient at either, but constant release is my best at the moment. I think most people play doubles with heel toe, just like you do with your hands. 2 notes with your right foot (heel toe) and 2 with your left (heel toe). Constant release is R. toe, L. toe, R. heal, L. heal. It's more like a single stroke roll. I have heard of people using it with doubles though. The motion looks similar, but they feel much different. I learned continuous release thinking I was learning heel toe. I think they are opposites. I use more of a heel down, then into a heel up motion for continuous release. As you push down (heel down position) and the beater hits, you lift your heel, and come back down again with the ball of your foot, for the note. I actually use more of a heel motion for heel toe. I push down with heel, then rock my foot forward for the toe stroke. I hope I've not confused you.
 
movement wise they seem to be the same,never heard one was for doubles and the other for singles.It's the similarity of the motion thats confusing me...
 
I've always understood they are two terms, used interchangeably, to describe the same technique.
 
Completely different, the way I do them.

Heel/toe - first strike heel, on the foot board ahead of the hinge - second strike toe catching the rebound, both on the downward movement of the leg.
No strikes on the upward movement when the foot leaves the pedal.
If using a double pedal, the opposite leg mirrors the movement while the first leg is lifting.
I don't think many people do heel/toe this way though.

Constant release - one strike leg moving down, one strike leg moving up, both with the ball of the foot, which never loses contact with the pedal.
I do it interleaved when using a double pedal.

You'll probably get the best results with whatever feels most natural or comes easiest to you.
They all feel awkward at first - some more than others.

.
 
Last edited:
you're right wild Bill.I play heel toe same way I didn't realize that both strokes were on the down stroke of the legs, but that's the way I do it also
 
As I understand it, heel toe are separate strokes with heel and toe.

Constant release is more of a rolling thing with the ball of your foot. Sort of a push-pull technique for your feet. Great technique for barefoot players like myself.
 
I'd like to respond to this post: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1415241&postcount=494
but do it here instead of the sticky.

I don't consider myself real experienced with double bass, I don't play gigs,
and when I did used to play gigs, I never used double bass.

That said, here's my take on it.
Heel/toe only sounds like a shuffle/swing beat when using a single foot.
When using both feet, it's possible to get even velocity hits that sound like singles,
although I can't do it at a real high speed.
It sounds like a swing beat with a single foot, for the reason I gave in post #5.

With a single 1/4 note - four 16th's; 1-ee -and-ah; - when using a single foot, you get hits from the heel on the '1', and from the toe on the 'ee'.
On the 'and', and the 'ah', your leg is moving upward.
So there's a 'gap' in the sound that can be put to good use.
If using both feet, your other foot is hitting when the 1st foot is moving upward.

For a shuffle/swing, substitute quick H/T hits (one foot) on 1 and 3, keeping the snare (and ghosts) on 2 and 4, while swinging on the ride.
Works like magic. YMMV

This is just the way I do it. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or the only way.
It could even be completely 'wrong' compared to how someone else approaches it.
I just tried different stuff and use what seems to work best for me.
Keep in mind also that I use a double pedal for practicing, and a single pedal while playing.

Edit: Single or double foot constant release gives me hits on '1' 'ee' 'and' 'ah' (or any other combination at speeds I'm capable of).
Single foot triplets too with a little concentration and effort. No gaps so it's always even sounding.
At slower speeds, heel down still feels most natural to me. But I can switch between the three methods pretty smoothly.

.
 
Last edited:
Think of constant release as heel-toe 'straightened out' so you can play continuous single strokes.

Heel-toe, as we hear it referred to, is for playing doubles.

Similar leg motion, different application.
 
I've always wondered about these techniques.

Heel-toe doubles have a use in extreme metal where guys are triggering kicks over 230 BPM.

Constant release, however, is another story. I've seen JoJo Mayer do crazy things with it one one foot but I've never seen a practical use for it. I know of no metal double bass guys that use it to play fast rolls and I know of no non-clinician single bass guys that use it.

Has anyone here actually worked this up to a point that they can do something more with it than I can with just plain old heel up?

Everyone I see doing it on video is doing it at slow to moderate tempos. It looks cool because your foot is doing all of this stuff but where is the practical application?
 
I suppose Jojo Mayer's style is something to strive for though. The guy is really good and I've seen a few videos where he demonstrates how the concept can be applied to your playing.

That said, I think Jojo's constant release is very different from the technique I've seen people demonstrate on YouTube. He does a kind of slide to hit with heel and then hits a toe stroke while sliding back to life the heel again. Most guys I've seen demonstrating it have their foot anchored in position.
 
As a constant release user, I feel like I have to defend the legitimacy of this technique. A lot of people seem to dismiss this technique as some "cool party trick" but it's not. constant release is simply a natural way to play (at least for some people), when I first started playing, I noticed that my foot tends to do a rocking motion when playing. I tried to suppress it for a long time because of coordination/technical issues but when the jojo dvd came out, I learned to hone that natural tendency. Now constant release feels more natural for me, I'm not doing crazy fast stuff either, just mid tempo stuff. For me constant release shines on syncopated bass drum patterns with multiple hits. My point is that constant release is not just for "crazy virtuoso playing", it's just another way to play, and for some people (like me), it's just easier for them to play that way.

@Reggae_Mangle
You are right. this person explains how jojo uses the technique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgoab-gObTs
I've also seen him on drumeo and his foot is flying.
 
This guy can play up around 250 with constant release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNg_9b8FBhA

This is crazy. I'd love to learn that.

Heel toe isn't putting your heel on the pedal though.

It looks similar to this technique, but your heel still hits behind the pedal, and you do RRLLRRLLRRLL where as constant release is more often used like this for RLRLRLRLRL

you don't see any metal guys playing 230 heel toe or faster actually striking the pedal with their heel.
 
This is crazy. I'd love to learn that.

Heel toe isn't putting your heel on the pedal though.

It looks similar to this technique, but your heel still hits behind the pedal, and you do RRLLRRLLRRLL where as constant release is more often used like this for RLRLRLRLRL

you don't see any metal guys playing 230 heel toe or faster actually striking the pedal with their heel.


Really - there should be a new term for whatever that technique is.
To call it heel/toe when you're not actually using your heel is confusing.
The way I do it is to use the heel, then the toe, both on one downward movement of the leg.
I can't get high speeds from it though.

Maybe if you make up a name for it, and start using it, the term will stick.
 
As a constant release user, I feel like I have to defend the legitimacy of this technique. A lot of people seem to dismiss this technique as some "cool party trick" but it's not. constant release is simply a natural way to play (at least for some people), when I first started playing, I noticed that my foot tends to do a rocking motion when playing. I tried to suppress it for a long time because of coordination/technical issues but when the jojo dvd came out, I learned to hone that natural tendency. Now constant release feels more natural for me, I'm not doing crazy fast stuff either, just mid tempo stuff. For me constant release shines on syncopated bass drum patterns with multiple hits. My point is that constant release is not just for "crazy virtuoso playing", it's just another way to play, and for some people (like me), it's just easier for them to play that way.
....


Ya - that's pretty much what I think about it too.
It's possible to use C/R in musically useful ways, rather than just trying to blast away at maximum speeds.
While that can be fun for its own sake, I'd never subject someone else to listen to it.
 
Really - there should be a new term for whatever that technique is.
To call it heel/toe when you're not actually using your heel is confusing.
The way I do it is to use the heel, then the toe, both on one downward movement of the leg.
I can't get high speeds from it though.

Maybe if you make up a name for it, and start using it, the term will stick.


It is still called heel toe because it is the same motion. I'm not going to make up for a technique that is wildly used by a ton of drummers haha.

I have tried actual putting my heel on the pedal and even on a longboard pedal it gives a gallop sound and just doesn't work at high speeds for 16th notes.

Look up 240bpm or 260bpm heel toe on youtube and you will see everyone doing this. first it is almost flat and second is the ball of the foot. If you slide your foot forward a few inches your heel would hit the pedal. its much easier to do this way.

It would be nice to have another term because it didn't make sense to me for a long time. I guess I just quit caring what it was called :)
 
When you put it that way, perhaps that's what I've been doing wrong when I was playing heel-toe. I always used to prefer to put my feet entirely on the board and that resulted in that galloping sound. Real interesting to know, now I know why the guys in the videos have their feet hanging off the board too.
 
It is still called heel toe because it is the same motion. I'm not going to make up for a technique that is wildly used by a ton of drummers haha.

I have tried actual putting my heel on the pedal and even on a longboard pedal it gives a gallop sound and just doesn't work at high speeds for 16th notes.

Look up 240bpm or 260bpm heel toe on youtube and you will see everyone doing this. first it is almost flat and second is the ball of the foot. If you slide your foot forward a few inches your heel would hit the pedal. its much easier to do this way.

It would be nice to have another term because it didn't make sense to me for a long time. I guess I just quit caring what it was called :)


Ya - picky, picky - ha ha. It doesn't really matter what it's called as long as it works.

I'm going to give what you say a try. I've got a question though.

There is some up and down movement from the hip.
For the way you describe, do both hits occur on the downward movement,
or is there one hit on the way down, and then one hit on the way up?

Youtube'd what you said. Can't tell from that - it would need to be slowed down.
Looks like everyone has their own way of doing it too: https://www.google.com/search?q=240bpm+or+260bpm+heel+toe+on+youtube&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTuBS2GPSti1WanFGYVoiOqGOVHOLtaWc
 
I play crappy in this video but it shows my settings and the overall technique.

I'll make a newer video with how I do it now

I keep my springs pretty lose, pedal board pretty flat. bassdrum batter head medium to tight. It can be done on short or long boards
First hit is kindof a leg drop I don't know if I think of the second hit as raising my leg. its more of a stroke from the ankle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIU_RZz3GOo

some of those videos were a bad representation. the one guy with his heels on the pedal doesn't sound all the tight.

this next video is OLD. ignore the heel risers on the Axis pedals as I use stock Demon Drives now. I thought these helped but it really didn't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FTSLL2tD0E

general idea anyways. It works for me.. at the end of the day, single strokes, double strokes, heel tow, Constant release, swivel all work.


I have also been using it for quick doubles here and there and it works pretty good for that too. not just long runs of 16ths.
 
Back
Top