Tuning a Gretsch tom

incrementalg

Gold Member
I've been trying to tune my Gretsch New Classic 12" tom and Im finding it challenging to say the least. I can't get the heads in tune with themselves, let alone in tune with the opposing head. It's resonant as hell, but I'm getting a lot of errant tones. I've never hit a drum before and heard three different tones at once. I think it's the 5 lug setup that I'm struggling with. I can hum the note I want to hear and get close, but there are weird errant tones mixed in and the tuning is so sensitive that I keep over or under shooting the fundamental tone at individual lugs.

For Gretsch owners...When you moved to Gretsch did you find the 5 lug tuning difficult to master?

I can see a tune bot in my future.
 
I have a similar issue with the 12" on my Renown. I couldn't get it to sound good. Then someone else played my kit and it sounded great. I've ultimately come to realize that I'm completely unable to tune the head while sitting at the throne and the drum is mounted. If I put it on a bench, or hold it on my lap/hand, there's no issue.

I have the old-style 4-lug GTS mounts, so we're dissimilar in that regard. The best I can suggest is to start fresh, finger-tighten, JAW tune by counting a single, and work your way up to the desired tuning an eighth-turn at a time.

If you find a better solution, post it as I'm extremely interested.
 
First you don't need a Tune Bot. when tuning the 5 lug, finger tighten each lug, and then start with any lug, turn one full turn, skip a lug, tune the next, skip a lug, tune the next until all 5 have one turn. Then tweek from there. I recently bought an Evans Torque Key and what a breeze. I set the guage to 4, did the reso head first and the the batter. Left the gauge on 4 and did my 10, and 14 floor as well. $20.00 versus the $99.00 and very simple to used. Before I got this key I always tuned by counting turns of the tension rod. This makes it so much easier and faster. Counting turns will get you close, then tweak them by ear. My toms sound great. I also tuned 6 snare drums within about 30 minutes using this torque key.
 
Yes, buy a tune bot. I gave in and purchased one. I find my drums sound better with the tune bot than when I tuned by ear. It also has handy de-tuning methods to control resonance while keeping the same tone. This is something you will not find with any other tuning product on the market. Hell, most drummers who tune by ear don't even know that you can control resonance with tuning and still get the same pitch. They just know "tune the resonant heads a bit over the batters"... Cool, so what does that do? They have no clue, they were just told this by some drum teacher they had as a kid 20 years ago.

Torque keys don't mean anything when you have a hoop that is not perfectly flat (I haven't come across a single triple flange hoop that is perfectly flat). Also, equal tension does not mean equal tuning, so tension watches and torque keys aren't helpful.
 
My theory is its head thickness... like GRETSCH and PEARL figured out, different size shell's benefit from different thickness.

I believe this may translate to heads also. A 12" head would differ from a 10" head by a mil or two, which way (thinner/thicker) still to be determined, tho probably thinner.


If some head manufacture were so bold as to try and release a 'set' of heads with slightly different thickness to optimize tuning/sound. A 10 mil head might not be optimal for a 12" tom, tho may be on a 10".
 
There has been talk about head thickness and how it can vary across the big sheet of mylar before it is cut to the sizes used for the head. Its somewhere in the head sub-forum. However, the variance between the head thickness of a (for example) 10" Evans G2 vs a 12" G2 is negledgable.

But, your idea of choosing different heads depending on drum size has a lot of merit. An 8" rack tom will produce a tone that is very different than what a 16" floor tom produces. Based on the tone it produces, you can maximise the characteristics that you want from that tone by choosing different heads. A deep, grumbly floor tom would benefit from a 2 ply head, possibly with some built in damping. But that same head could completly kill the tone of an 8" tom. Something like a singly ply, thinner with no damping head could really open up the 8" drum to get nice bright tones without choking.
 
I tuned up my Catalina Maple's last night and I love the sound of my 12" tom. Its a 5 lug tom, just like the New Classics and Renowns. Great tone, crazy amounts of sustain despite the fact that I have a 3/16" round over on the outside of the bearing edge, very clean and true sound. No errant overtones. That last one could be due to the bearing edges I cut on the drum.

In fact, all my rack toms (8", 10" and 12") sound fantastic. My little 8" tom sings! The 10" has the slightest bit less sustain that the 8" and 12" and I chalk that up to shoddy shell construction by Gretsch (big gap in the interior plies that I could not completely fill). Its probably not something many people would notice, but when I'm sitting there tuning the drums and comparing the 3 rack toms, the 10" has the least sustain, the 8" is singing nicely, and the 12" just won't shut up. All 3 produce very clean and clear "notes" without any wavering in their tone. And they were all tuned with a tune-bot.
 
You have probably already tried this, but you might try loosening both heads to finger tightness and then starting the tuning process again.

Good luck

GJS
 
For Gretsch owners...When you moved to Gretsch did you find the 5 lug tuning difficult to master?

Actually, I find it the easiest drum to tune.

Use whatever tool gets you to where you want to be and makes you happy.
 
I've been trying to tune my Gretsch New Classic 12" tom and Im finding it challenging to say the least. I can't get the heads in tune with themselves, let alone in tune with the opposing head. It's resonant as hell, but I'm getting a lot of errant tones. I've never hit a drum before and heard three different tones at once. I think it's the 5 lug setup that I'm struggling with.

...as an alternative, you may wish to consider changing drum heads that may yield a more focused tone...i understand the new classics use the same usa custom-formulated maple shells/bearing edges/die cast hoops, in which case you may wish to try remo coat ambassadors or evans coated g1's on the top and bottom...

...also, gretsch's use of silver sealer interior shell paint amplifies the tonal characteristics of the shell, which results in gretsch's unique sound...

...the use of 5 vs. 6 lugs on a 12 inch tom doesn't seem to affect the tuning of the drum imho...
 
Thanks for the feedback all. I found the sound I'm looking for with G2 coated batter and ambassador reso. Might switch to G1 reso later, but the current combo sounds amazing.

These drums are really close to USA customs in terms of tone. Even John Palmer at Gretsch said the NC were the closest tone wise to the USA customs.
 
A little update on my tuning. I bought the idrumTune app for my phone and used it on both my toms. First, let me say that I'm surprised at just how close in tuning I got each lug using just my ears. With the exception of one or two outliers, my lugs were within a couple Hz of one another. Second, let me say that I'm surprised at how much difference those couple of Hz make. With lugs tuned to the same frequency on both the batter and reso, both the 12 and 16 toms took a leap in terms of sustain.

I'm getting more comfortable with the 5 lug setup too and am able to better judge how to tweak the tuning.
 
...also, gretsch's use of silver sealer interior shell paint amplifies the tonal characteristics of the shell, which results in gretsch's unique sound...

I can't help giving in to my usual cynical self, sorry, but do you really believe that Gretsch's use of silver sealer on the internal shells "amplifies the tonal characteristics of the shell?" I'm not in a position to state definitively whether the sealer affects the tone in any way, I'm just curious as to what inspires you to believe so. Just wondering.

GeeDeeEmm
 
I shellacked the interiors of my Catalina's (2 coats of shellac), and it made not a lick of difference in the tonal characteristic of the drum. The interiors look very nice, but the drums don't sound any different. I don't think silver fence paint will have any effect on the drum's sound.
 
I told you a Tune-Bot was worth while. Yeah, that app isn't a Tune-Bot, but it works in a similar way.

Yeah, you were right. I can't believe how much just a couple of Hz makes when bringing the lugs in tune with themselves. Frankly, I'm surprised they sing as much as they do. I didn't expect it from these drums.
 
I can't help giving in to my usual cynical self, sorry, but do you really believe that Gretsch's use of silver sealer on the internal shells "amplifies the tonal characteristics of the shell?" I'm not in a position to state definitively whether the sealer affects the tone in any way, I'm just curious as to what inspires you to believe so. Just wondering.

GeeDeeEmm

...hummm...well, let's see, the OP recently acquired a NC kit and experienced a bit of a challenge tuning the small tom and dealing with the multiple notes that the tom produced...since the NC shell "formula" is similar to the USA Custom formula, and since i also experienced a rich palette of notes with the small (and large) toms, i suggested that the OP consider focusing the tone by using evans 360 G1 heads...i also conjectured that the silver sealer may have amplified the drum tones that the OP experienced...the basis of my conjecture was a direct comparison to other drums that have unfinished interiors...of course, the ultimate arbiter would be to compare a USA/NC tom with SS to one without (a difficult proposition), or to compare direct knock-offs (like the DW Jazz Series drums) and indirect knock-offs (like the Canopus RFM Maple Neo-Vintage 1) without SS...hope this clarifies things a bit...
 
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