Is it OK to talk about the movie "Whiplash" yet?

Matt Bo Eder said:
After being forced to watch Nick Cannon in Drumline, I avoid all musical fiction.
Click to expand...

To force me to watch that shit, you'd have to literally go clockwork orange on my ass with the eye-lid spreaders and captivity chair.
 
I enjoyed the film, a decent story well told. Was I looking to see if the drummer was playing all the stuff or that the luggs were from the correct period? No, of course not, It is a piece of fiction, I can suspend reality and enjoy a movie for what it is.

Its like sweating on who did al the dancing in Black Swan? I dont care, It could be CGI but as long as the script and the acting are good then thats enough.

Diverting as it was I wont be buying a DVD.
 
Matt Bo Eder said:
After being forced to watch Nick Cannon in Drumline, I avoid all musical fiction.
Click to expand...

I actually liked Drumline. Very hokey but that was most of the fun.

Just saw this movie last night with my wife. She was a bit perturbed by the Fletcher character's outright abusive relationship with his students. I caught some of the old timers lamenting "these days" where a teacher would rightfully be thrown in jail for that kind of crap.

The very dramatic scenes made me laugh, I can tell the kid that directed/wrote this was going for a very serious drama but it all came across as a bit silly to me. I just pictured John Cleese as the Monty Python drill Sgt delivering the really dramatic bits and chuckled.

Glad to know that Mr Peter Erskein also noticed the kid's terrible hand technique. I heard my first teacher scolding me to wrap the pinky it. he used to say (in jest) "put that pinky in, we're playing drums not having tea!"

Teller is a good actor. He's a so-so drummer: his hands are a mess in terms of technique, holding the sticks, etc., and no true fan of Buddy Rich would ever set up his or her drums in the manner that Teller's character does in the film.
Click to expand...

Source
 
I saw this movie a few weeks ago………I initially didn’t like it but it did haunt my thoughts for a few days.

I do wonder if the nefarious Buddy Rich tapes were any of the inspiration for the Fletcher’s rantings.

Something which did come up more than once, was the story of how Philly Jo Jones through a cymbal at Charlie Parker’s head one night, almost decapitating Parker. The point was made “Would Parker have become the sax legend he did if Jo had simply told him “good job” and patted him on the back. Would Parker have gone home and practiced, sweated and worked his way to redefining the saxophone as the ultimate jazz instrument? In essence and one of the issues which is facing more and more players is that, like Zoro stated in his book, “everyone wants to hear how great they sound but not necessarily the truth of ‘you need to go woodshed on this because you lack the skill to pull that off.” Do you want true respect or do want to be placated with false praise. I believe Neil Peart said something about "adulation without self-respect is worthless."

Basically, the statement Is that “good job” are the two most dangerous words in the English language these days because it equates to patronizing someone who really wants to be looked upon as cool because “he was onstage with the baddest musicians in town” and this happening more and more often, with the trespassers who have little or absolutely no musical talent whatsoever but “have to get on stage because he or she needs to be the center of attention”. Case in point, I had a guy jump up on stage on one of my gigs and ask if he could sit in. I said “sure” and handed him tambourine. As the steam shot from his ears, I asked him how long he had played drums and he replied that he never had but thought it looked like fun and he wanted to try it right then and there, not on jam or at a private lesson but on an actual gig! This also reminds me of the “industry of cool” statement made by Lester Bangs in the movie “Almost Famous”, which also has some very good insights in it as well.

It seems that everyone wants to be cool more than be legit, these days.

Back to Buddy thing….Ed Shaughnessy once told me, regarding those tapes, that, yes, Buddy could be very unpleasant to say the least but the thing which infuriated Buddy the most was bad playing and poor execution from his players. Buddy felt that the members of the audience paid top dollar to get to go to a BRBB performance and worked hard to pay for that ticket and that these “customers” deserved nothing less than the best possible and highest quality performance from each and every member. He also didn’t want his band members getting the mindset that any one or all of them could slack off and just get by – that they “had it made” and could get by on jive. In his mind, Buddy wasn’t their boss; the paying members of the audience were and they were entitled to nothing but the best from his brand. He just didn’t have time for the jive and didn’t let them go there in the first place.

Back to “Whiplash”, the drummer in question could have left with his father after the “ambush” but chose not to and returned to the stage to prove any doubters wrong. This is modern interpretation of the Philly Jo/Charlie Parker exchange. In the end he refused the coddling ever so present in modern society and chose to fight, like a warrior and ultimately won the respect of his agitator.

It’s about the fight for what you want. And my only form of censorship is the first amendment.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw
http://www.skillpages.com/mike.mccraw
 
I didn't read the whole thread, but I would like to point out (unfortunately it's not playing anywhere near me) that I heard the director on the radio say the actor had never played drums, and the majority of the playing scenes were actually him. He wanted to do it, so he crash coursed learning the drums in just a few months.

That's the story anyway..
 
When you see a hospital drama or a cop drama...that's not like how it is in real life either. It's entertainment. It does not have to be technically accurate. For a drumming movie, as drummers, we'd like it to be, but that's a big ask apparently. I liked it but it is wacky at times. That's OK. It's fictional and exaggerated. I liked the fictional story line.
 
larryace said:
When you see a hospital drama or a cop drama...that's not like how it is in real life either. It's entertainment. It does not have to be technically accurate. For a drumming movie, as drummers, we'd like it to be, but that's a big ask apparently. I liked it but it is wacky at times. That's OK. It's fictional and exaggerated. I liked the fictional story line.
Click to expand...
Yeah, musicians are close to the material and many don't like it because of the inaccuracies. Also, music is a difficult career, so musicians are going to pick apart anything that glosses over the realities they face or have faced. Fiction takes liberties with the truth. The way mob families, courtrooms and crime scene investigators are depicted in fiction is likewise often ridiculous and it annoys people who know what the real-life stuff is like. Judging by the reactions I've read on social media, jazz musicians are the most critical of the movie.

I think there are legit criticisms of the movie that aren't about just having problems with the inaccurate depictions of music and drumming. But it especially polarizes musicians. The movie is a big success in the film world. Friends I know who are connected to the business of writing and film-making are generally very high on it. It's won a lot of awards already and it's up for Best Picture at the Oscars.
 
Wow, I finally saw the thing, and it is truly godawful. Kind of amazed at the amount of horrible playing they allowed into the movie. I wish they had at least gotten real drummers for the supporting parts, and hired a consultant to avoid having the thing riddled with absurd stuff. I know it's not a documentary, but they did choose to set their drama in the jazz world, and they do have a duty to do some research and be faithful to some remote semblance of reality.

To ease my pain, I wrote up a drinking game for it in case anyone wants to get dangerously loaded.
 
Is it weird I actually have zero desire to see this movie?

Drummers everywhere are talking about this movie, pro and con, and I just can't seem to be interested.
 
OK, just saw it, some thoughts:

The main characters technique is really bad, and any drummer worth his/her salt can see that (move your damn wrists!). However, I believe he played like that intentionally for character development. During the final solo, the camera lingers really close up to an actual drummer's hand, and he's clearly using his fingers instead of his whole frakking arm (finally!).

The filmmakers are trying to show that he's a better player now, and they have to exaggerate because most people who aren't movie buffs don't look close at films, and it's even less noticeable to an audience of non-drummers.

That said, when the drumming didn't sync up to the music it looked really bad. They did a good job of hiding the "real" musicians when they showed up with smooth quick editing. At least the actual score was pretty good and they didn't ruin it by having us listen to the actors attempt to play the drums.

And JK Simmons is a beast. As a long time fan, it's great to see him getting some real mainstream attention. I didn't like a lot of the things he said, cuz I'm not a dirtbag, but you're not supposed to agree with him. He's supposed to be a larger than life asshole. In a testament to JKS's abilities, he still makes his character seem sympathetic and grounded in reality for a few moments. It helps that the story was surprisingly unpredictable. It's not Naked Lunch or anything, but my brother and I kept guessing what would happen next, and were wrong every time. I was expecting Whiplash to be annoyingly inspirational like The Blind Side or something, but it just kept getting worse and worse for the kid.

Overall, I really liked Whiplash, but it was definitely held up by JK Simmons. He was the glue that held the whole thing together. As a drummer, it was disappointing that a movie about drumming put so little time into getting drumming right.
 
I have a buddy who's a pilot and he can't see movies with flying involved (Flight starring Denzel Washington) for more than five minutes without rolling his eyes and stating how absolutely ridiculous everything is...why can't they research more into how actual flying is done? or cops, lawyers, doctors, ect? Probably cause it's just not that interesting. I bet if this movie was about a boxer trying to get better it would be way better received by musicians...of course it would be hated by boxers.

Anyways, if you want to see media getting jazz right, I recommend the fantastic Kids on the Slope -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFHNPkHCW5Y
 
I finally watched the movie last night. I actually really enjoyed it. Simmons was fantastic. I feel like the plot was the generic every sports movie, but then they twisted it, which I liked.

I always get a chuckle from people who get too caught up in the technical bits and nit pick something to death so you can't enjoy a popcorn flick for what it is. I think it's nice to have a movie where the drummer is the star. Maybe it'll help get a bit more people interested in drumming, andf a little more respect from the drummers aren't musicians crowd. lol

I had a few flashbacks in the movie to some of my earlier days learning to drum. I remember playing for hours just trying to woodshed and then looking at my snare and seeing blood on it from my knuckles that had clipped the edge of the rim, and not having felt it, or getting blisters from bad technique.

Also I took a little inspiration about battling through adversity. I like that it showed him practicing after problems. I like that better than the whole "if you believe in the power of dreams, anything can come true" crap that usually comes with this sort of movie. Or just rely on your given talent, and win because you're the underdog hero, like most sports movies do it.
 
whiteknightx said:
Maybe it'll help get a bit more people interested in drumming, andf a little more respect from the drummers aren't musicians crowd. lol
Click to expand...

Hopefully the film helps some young people get into drumming and jazz. On the other hand, I'm concerned that the harsh, inaccurate, over-the-top portrayal of conservatory learning and educators may deter potential musicians from pursuing the art. Jazz is not portrayed in its true light, which is fun, flowing and free, and hopefully viewers don't judge jazz based on the movie.
 
The movie has as much to do with drumming as did Drumline. Character clashes, over the top drama. And as for "nice job" or "good job", I used to coach swimming for many years, and took 7 girls to the YMCA championships one year. I will guarantee that I said both of these phrases to these seven girls and the other 100 swimmers on the team, many times. Kids like nothing better than climbing out of a pool and having the coach right there with some encouragement. Not sure when the movie was to have taken place but I'm sure it was the slang at the time. Just like any clerk or cashier in todays retail that you say thank you too and their response is "no problem". Well I sure hope not. Gets on my nerves but I know it will pass and one day kids will say "you are welcome"
 
People definitely respond to encouragement. Fletcher's character obviously doesn't agree with that line of thinking, and that's part of what made him, him.

IMO the movie makers wanted the audience to think...that Fletcher thinks....that Andrew has something special. And the only way to really pull that special out of him, was to be a total over the top hardass at every turn.

Not that every kid gets treated that way, only Fletcher's own personal handpicked students. In this case, Andrew. Just my impression of the intent of the film makers.

Take Fletcher and his tactics away and there goes all your tension. He plays the part of the intimidating person to a "T".

Maybe that happens in real life, but to a much less dramatic degree. It doesn't seem to be too hard to imagine a teacher seeing something special in a certain student. And that teacher maybe uses different tactics on that student to try and push them harder to realize their potential. That's the core of the message I got.

As a side note, in case anyone's interested...I have a new product for sale.

It's for teachers.

It's a full size, lightweight, foam rubber folding chair that you can throw at your students that won't hurt them.

So you can be a badass, but in a kinder, gentler way, to your best students.

Best 29.99 you'll ever spend. PM me.

(All sales final)
 
Finally saw the movie last night. I liked it. Like you guys said, it wasn't much about drumming, just dealing with a hard-ass teacher. I like how Fletcher got his revenge, then it backfired, he was pissed, then changed his mind mid-solo. Has anybody here ever bled like that trying to play fast?

One of my favorite scenes was after Andrew got his first chew-out, he got home and a sticker was on his dresser or wall that said "If you don't have ability, you wind up playing in a rock band". I think Buddy said that, right?

I hope some drummers got inspired to play jazz, it would be a tragedy if that kind of drumming goes the way of the dodo, but this generation of young drummer mostly just want to play metal (or, like me, rock because I don't have the ability).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top