Rant: Who's in charge at Gibraltar??

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I like the idea of Gibraltar being a hardware only company and offering all the types of mounts and clamps that no one else does. I do think they make their traditional pedals great and functional, but every company has some flub ups with wacky ideas. It does seem like they need a Bob Gatzen or any real world drummer to oversee things though. I liked when Rick Van Horn did his product reviews in Modern Drummer. He would be super meticulous to the extreme examining things like knurled washers (jeeza!) but he could catch a simple real world design flaw in a product like no one I ever read since. I think these companies try to re-invent the wheel because they think selling the same thing over and over again will stagnate sales.

Also you guys all know there was this trend (and maybe still is..) for everyone to want to put out a new high tech pedal. It was the drum trend of the year. Axis and Trick started it with genuine innovation. But I feel that since extreme metal bass drumming got so popular and those drummers used Trick and Axis, everyone else wanted to jump on the bandwagon and go all high tech-y with their new wacky pedals. "I can out tech your pedal and all the bass drum speed freak kids will buy mine!" Of course we also all know bass drum speed is all about practice and patience and only about maybe say 10% is the pedal itself helping out. But anything to make a buck, right? So Gibraltar tried this "thing" and failed. Sometimes the wheel does not need to be invented. Look at Ludwig. People still play and love their Speed King Pedals, right?
 
ggmerino said:
I have spent a fortune buying different clutches (maybe an exaggeration- I have 5 clutches) and I have to say I found the perfect one: http://remo.com/portal/products/2/610/787/hh_clutch.html
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I like that clutch, although invariably, the thumb nut strips (or maybe it strips the threaded shaft?) and it no longer grips the cymbal.

FYI, Taye OEM's that for Remo and also offers it:

tayeclutch.jpg



RockNGrohl said:
Of course we also all know bass drum speed is all about practice and patience and only about maybe say 10% is the pedal itself helping out.
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I agree that a good pedal has a limited role in helping the drummer, but a pedal that doesn't feel good will definitely hold the player back. The best pedal is the one that allows the player's foot to respond to the player's capability.

Bermuda
 
ggmerino said:
Gibraltar's model is to make everything and make it cheap. They do make everything though.

I have spent a fortune buying different clutches (maybe an exaggeration- I have 5 clutches) and I have to say I found the perfect one: http://remo.com/portal/products/2/610/787/hh_clutch.html

It has no threads where the cymbal goes, never gets loose from the pole, has a good spring to keep the cymbal as tight as you intended it to be, quick release bottom nut that due to its design will never fall off or loosen. My quest is done.
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I agree, that's the clutch I own.
 
bermuda said:
It's especially frustrating when all of their other clutches do work correctly! There's an obvious flaw on this model.

Perhaps a bad one slipped through?

Ok, new rant: who's doing QC at Gibraltar, Stevie Wonder??

Heh, I wish!
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I see what you did that. ;)

That being said, What I've seen is that they just make something and it gets pushed out on the market post-haste.

Another thing I've witnessed is picking list accuracy and even product labeling. Once I ordered a set of die cast hoops for my 13" Dunnett Titanium alloy drum. Got the snare side hoop in the box w/ designation for batter side and they didn't even send the batter side. Of course they made it right via next day shipping... still...just having to wait for the right thing to get here is a PITA.
 
i've delt with that clutch (and versions of it) for a long time and there's a possible solution here.

when that clutch is put together, the center threaded post has one side longer than the other. sometimes the wrong side is screwed into the body. see if you can unscrew the center post and turn it around (i've always been able to do it by hand) maybe measure each side to see if they're the same.

or if you want to get fancy once its out cut it down a little so its in the position you need it to be in.
 
ggmerino said:
Gibraltar's model is to make everything and make it cheap. They do make everything though.

I have spent a fortune buying different clutches (maybe an exaggeration- I have 5 clutches) and I have to say I found the perfect one: http://remo.com/portal/products/2/610/787/hh_clutch.html

It has no threads where the cymbal goes, never gets loose from the pole, has a good spring to keep the cymbal as tight as you intended it to be, quick release bottom nut that due to its design will never fall off or loosen. My quest is done.
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I LOVE this clutch, as well. Guy in the store said try this one, it's cheaper than the dw one I was eyeing and simply works. Push, twist and release. Aahh.
 
I have a Gibraltar rack that is very handy for things like weird sets in orchestra pits, etc. The metal used for the rack tubes is so thin, it just dents with hardly any effort.

Won't ever buy anything from that company until they figure out how to start making quality, not quantity.
 
drummerfish said:
i've delt with that clutch (and versions of it) for a long time and there's a possible solution here.

when that clutch is put together, the center threaded post has one side longer than the other. sometimes the wrong side is screwed into the body. see if you can unscrew the center post and turn it around (i've always been able to do it by hand) maybe measure each side to see if they're the same.

or if you want to get fancy once its out cut it down a little so its in the position you need it to be in.
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I had thought of that, but looking at the lower, exposed threaded portion, it's not long enough to solve the problem if reversed. It would put the thrum nuts even farther from being able to grip the cymbal.

I did see another cheaper looking Gibraltar clutch, and the threaded shaft was noticeably shorter than on this model. I don't know if there's a smooth spot in the threading, but it sure seems like there's a better chance the cymbal could be held as needed.

Again, I cite a design flaw with this clutch. Their other clutches have good functionality, they dropped the ball on this one.

Bermuda
 
I have a Gibraltar cymbal spanner, which they don't sell anymore (that should have been a red flag).

It looks handy and well made, but as you tighten the crucial wing-nuts which are supposed to hold the horizontal clamps, the wing-nut and washer will slip off the open ended clamp. This is not one of their finer moments in logical design, I fixed it by adding extra memory clamps on each side of the horizontal clamps as they only give you three - it's as if they didn't even try the product before releasing it. I have a few of their boom arms for splashes which have already started losing their grip after one year's use. I think I'm gonna stick with Yamaha or Tama HW for now on. Gibraltar tongue-darts the stink tube... :)
 
brady said:
And sure enough, Gibraltar makes one of those too. )
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I have the gibraltar quick release too. The only thing that bugs me about it is the threads where the cymbal goes and sometimes I have a hell of a time getting the quick release to release quickly.
 
I disagree with most on this thread. I have had several items from Gibraltar that were good quality. I am generally impressed with their construction and quality. I also think that items like the catapult pedal have to be made. It was an idea, not a good one to some of you, but that's how innovation often happens, trial and error. I think they have more hits than misses. Also, I use a locking hat clutch from them that works the balls! Best I've used!
 
metallitroy said:
I disagree with most on this thread. I have had several items from Gibraltar that were good quality. I am generally impressed with their construction and quality... I think they have more hits than misses. Also, I use a locking hat clutch from them that works the balls! Best I've used!
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I agree that Gibraltar makes great stuff, which is why an anomaly like this particular clutch shouldn't exist. I have at least two other clutch models from them, and there are no issues. Why couldn't they continue the same functionality?

This is not like a drum or cymbal or head or stick company, where if they try something new, it's subject to the personal tastes of drummers. There are understandable hits & misses with sonic and tactile products. A clutch is not subjective - it is designed to hold the top hat cymbal at various tensions, period. There's no reason that tension should start at really loose, with the only option being even looser. Gibraltar's other clutches satisfy those who want a firm grip on the cymbal, a loose grip, or anything in-between... why not this?

Because it's a bad design. Because they didn't run it by a drummer. Or, it wasn't made to spec and their quality control persons didn't seem to know the difference.

It's a clutch, and has one function, and they blew it.

Bermuda
 
I'd love to get a job being a field R&D guy for Gibraltar. They'd give me new gear and prototypes and I'd gig it and report back on what I liked/didn't like about it and I keep the gear as compensation.

John, you've got connections with Sabian, crawl up that KMC ladder and rattle some cages. I'll split my haul of all the Gibraltar t-shirts and sticker I get.
 
bermuda said:
I had thought of that, but looking at the lower, exposed threaded portion, it's not long enough to solve the problem if reversed. It would put the thrum nuts even farther from being able to grip the cymbal.



Again, I cite a design flaw with this clutch. Their other clutches have good functionality, they dropped the ball on this one.

Bermuda
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Jon is it possible that the threads are screwed in too far? Like instead of a design flaw it was a manufacturing oversight? Have you tried backing them out so you have enough threadage?
I know you shouldn't have to do it, I just have a hard time swallowing the notion that a designer given this task would submit an unworkable design, and his boss would give it the go ahead.
 
I'd love to do some focus groups and R&D with the team at Gibraltar, but I doubt I've won any supporters there with a thread like this. Unfortunately, and I've seen this before, they apparently prefer idea people to those who would inform them when an idea isn't a good one.

I suppose it's hard to know for sure that something like the Catapult pedal was a bad idea, without throwing it out there to see if it sticks (although I certainly could have warned them about that particular product!) As for the new bags, it's also hard to know for sure how they'll be received, but they're clearly trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and I think the bags will come and go quickly.

And with the clutch, it would have taken a drummer about 15 seconds to see that it doesn't work well, and another 15 seconds to determine why.

Sure, it's just a clutch, but where does one draw the line? Is a stick just a stick? A head just a head? A pedal just a pedal?? A clutch makes a tactile difference in the way hats are played, and how they sound, so I'd say it's important to have it to work correctly.

Bermuda
 
larryace said:
Jon is it possible that the threads are screwed in too far? Have you tried backing them out so you have enough threadage?
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It won't make a difference. The bottom, plastic nut only screws on so far, and the upper threads are too far away to allow those nuts and felt to come down and get a grip on the cymbal. Even if I could change the position of the shaft, the spacing of the nuts stays the same due to the unthreaded portion. That is, the threaded portions are too far apart, and that doesn't change even if the shaft was reversed.

I've already found the solution - the added washers bring the felts closer together, and grip the cymbal better. But I resent having to rig this, especially when every other clutch I've used has worked without issue. I'd love to know how this model slipped through the cracks.

Bermuda
 
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When I first started using my REMO QUICK CLUTCH (like the one in pic below), the felts were fine but quickly compressed. I needed to change out the bottom one first, then the top.

The supplied felts are garbage really. I have some GIBRLATAR quick release clutches and they're superior in quality/build to the REMO/TAYE variants IMO, only thing neg being the GIBRALTAR qr's are heavier.

In the world of HH clutchdom there's plenty of room for innovation, I'd love to see a clutch made out of composite material, steel thread insert. HH clutches really don't need to made of steel.

BTW, if you're considering a quick release clutch, I've concluded the GIBRALTAR is better made than the REMO/TAYE variants, tho heavier. If weight isn't a concern go with the GIBRALTAR. I favor carting a REMO/TAYE because they are lighter, they work well, just sloppy in regards to build tolerances (and the crappy felts) and the blackk wears off the bottom nut making the piece (when un cymbal'd) look worn/crappy in a short period of time. Look, build GIBRALTAR gets the nod. They all function the same IMO.

If you're going for the REMO/TAYE design, also note the REMO is $25 street and the TAYE only $15. Easy choice there.
 

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This is the result of kneeling at the alter of Steve Jobs and his fail fast, fail hard mantra of "disruptive" innovation. I call it "flail fast, flail hard". I work for another huge silicon valley tech firm and there are tons of ex-Apple people around. Saying something won't work is tantamount to career suicide these days. Taking the time to get it right just isn't done. Pressing forward is what it's all about. Get it to the market and let the market decide. Keep spewing ideas out there and the law of averages will prevail. Find something that makes you a lot of money and leverage it to fund a ton of different ideas in a scatter shot pursuit of the next big thing. Then crow about the ones that stick and have selective amnesia about all the wasted efforts.
 
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