Tour buy in: yes or no?

So, I am planning a couple of week tour for my band next summer and I have a few different opportunities. I figured I would put it out to the forum and see what you guys think.

I have the opportunity to buy into a tour with a national act on a club tour. The buy in is $1200 which we would make back in our cut of the advance over the length of the tour. The up front money isnt really an issue, its the fact that we are ultimately playing a zero sum game. We would need to sell quite a bit of merch to cover the cost of gas, lodging, etc. and there is obviously no guarantee of that. The tour could end up costing us quite a bit in the long run.

The other option is we just do it DIY. Contact some local bands, get on whatever shows we can, wherever we can, and try to peice together a tour. The problem with this is the lack of a guaranteed advance or audience. We have basically done this for the last three years all up and down the east coast and the results are very hit and miss. At our age the no budget, sleep where you can, live in the van route is not really an option. I did that at 18 and loved it, but I dont think the other guys in the band would go for it.

We are obviously not at the "book our own headliner tour" stage yet. The best way to get a crowd is with national acts or headliners.

So what say you ol' faithful DrummerWorld forum mates? Any insight into this or any other ideas?

eclipseownzu said:

So, I am planning a couple of week tour for my band next summer and I have a few different opportunities. I figured I would put it out to the forum and see what you guys think.

I have the opportunity to buy into a tour with a national act on a club tour. The buy in is $1200 which we would make back in our cut of the advance over the length of the tour. The up front money isnt really an issue, its the fact that we are ultimately playing a zero sum game. We would need to sell quite a bit of merch to cover the cost of gas, lodging, etc. and there is obviously no guarantee of that. The tour could end up costing us quite a bit in the long run.

The other option is we just do it DIY. Contact some local bands, get on whatever shows we can, wherever we can, and try to peice together a tour. The problem with this is the lack of a guaranteed advance or audience. We have basically done this for the last three years all up and down the east coast and the results are very hit and miss. At our age the no budget, sleep where you can, live in the van route is not really an option. I did that at 18 and loved it, but I dont think the other guys in the band would go for it.

We are obviously not at the "book our own headliner tour" stage yet. The best way to get a crowd is with national acts or headliners.

So what say you ol' faithful DrummerWorld forum mates? Any insight into this or any other ideas?

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Well a buy-in can be a great thing for an up and coming band and you also gotta remember it helps the headliner out as well so the system is good, IMO.

Just be smart, do all the marketing stuff ahead of time, have all the tour dates queued up and know what radio stations to hit, who to talk to, etc so you can make the best of this. You'll hopefully break even and have a new batch of fans.

You say national act, what's the band? Have most people heard of them?

eclipseownzu said:

At our age the no budget, sleep where you can, live in the van route is not really an option. I did that at 18 and loved it, but I dont think the other guys in the band would go for it.

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Isn't this going to be the case either way?

Take the biggest crowd.

T.Underhill said:

You say national act, what's the band? Have most people heard of them?

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I knew this question would come up. And I'm not really sure how much I can say. Both bands have current radio hits and played second stages at major festivals this year. Not arena shows, but should be able to fill a club.

Buy on.










000000000

When I used to tour, we used to use an RV. We were young, and poor, and gas was under a buck a gallon. Do bands still do this?

eclipseownzu said:

We would need to sell quite a bit of merch to cover the cost of gas, lodging, etc. and there is obviously no guarantee of that. The tour could end up costing us quite a bit in the long run.

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Exposure is a good thing, but if you're basically relying on merch to pay for your end of things, you have to ask if an opening band in clubs can sell enough merch to people who are there to see the headliner (and are prepared to spend their money on that band's merch.) I think we both know the answer to that.

From a strictly financial standpoint, yes, it's a real gamble. But if everyone can afford to travel without worrying about paying for some of the expenses, I'd say go out and have a good time!

Bermuda

I think there is a lot more to it then just "buy on" or not.

I personally think buying on, like pay to play, is generally not a good idea unless it is very well thought out and can be justified by the bigger picture.

A friend of mine did got hired to to do a big tour opening for name acts, and the artist who hired him was buying on for most of the gigs.

Mech became an issue because the contract also called for the headliner to get a cut of the merch. Plus the venue also took their usual cut of the mech. Plus the headliner also had a policy that the opening act would not sell their mech for less than the headliner. So you had an opening act no one heard of trying to sell a T-shirt for way more than they wanted to charge, and then only getting a small chunk of the sales after everyone else took their cut.

And while back stage everyone was friendly, there was certainly a vibe of the non-buy on acts looking down at the buy on bands. Not on a personal level, but in that they're looking at the buy-on band going "really?"

That said the biggest issue was the artist doing the buy on and the hiring didn't have a complete plan put together. Yes, they were getting a ton of exposure to thousands of people, and slowly building a fan base. But there was no follow up on face book, or twitter or other social media. There was little to no autograph signings, only a small handful of youtube videos. The artist was not using the fact that the artist was on tour to promote the bigger picture.

At one warm up gig, the artist had to admit more people where there to see members of his hired back up band then were there to see him. After lots of touring, the artist had little to show for all the money spent.

The other failure I notice with other bands who do obvious buy ons is they fail to get their name out to the crowd. I can't tell you how many opening acts I've seen where I walked away not having a clue as to what the band's name was. Or unsure looking at the bill, which band was which name. I've even walked back to the merch booth and thought, ok, I don't know which shirt or which CD goes to the band I just saw, and which ones go to the other bands on the bill. Touring is expensive, buy ons are even more expensive, and now the band just blew a major opportunity to possible convert me into a fan, because I don't know who they are. They might as well of taken the money they spend to buy on and flushed it down the toilette and stayed home, because the end result is the same.

My point is, you can't just buy on for the sake of playing in front of more people. There has to be a much bigger plan that makes the buy in just a small part of the overall plan.

Do it.
You will regret it if you say no.
Go have fun!

I hope it's $1200 for the whole band. If that's just your individual contribution, I would say it's a definite pass. I would have to be feeling great about how my band is going to go over with the headliner's audience, and be very optimistic about the quality of the exposure, and also planning on returning to those cities/venues independently like next year. Definitely figure out what the worst case scenario is financially, in case the thing turns out to be a disaster. Coming home $5000 in the hole would put a serious damper on your future plans for the group. Figure out what your exposure is. You didn't say how long it is or how great the distances are-- the $1200 could be a drop in the bucket compared to other expenses.

I'd personally be inclined to book my own tour, and use the money to support that. I guess if you haven't had great results from your previous outings, you need to look at doing things differently; I'm just not sure gambling on a potentially big money loser vs. just OK exposure is the thing.

I'd do it for the exposure. Food + accommodation + 1200 is a fair bit of cash to front though.

Re: the merch, I wouldn't expect many ppl to buy an unknown bands shirt so I'd just burn cd's, it will be much cheaper and you might recoup your costs quicker if you're not paying for the shirts to be made.

DrumEatDrum said:

And while back stage everyone was friendly, there was certainly a vibe of the non-buy on acts looking down at the buy on bands. Not on a personal level, but in that they're looking at the buy-on band going "really?"

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I almost feel that way myself about the whole thing. I grew up playing in hardcore bands where everything was very DIY. The idea of paying to play with a bigger band was sacreligious at the time. I think that is my problem with the whole thing.

DrumEatDrum said:

That said the biggest issue was the artist doing the buy on and the hiring didn't have a complete plan put together... The artist was not using the fact that the artist was on tour to promote the bigger picture.

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And this is where the rubber meets the road! We, as a band, have a pretty complicated set of circumstances that makes us different from every other band I have ever been in. The big picture is a little different for us, but ultimately if we are going to spend the money we will figure out how to make it worth our while.

toddbishop said:

I hope it's $1200 for the whole band.

I'd personally be inclined to book my own tour, and use the money to support that. I guess if you haven't had great results from your previous outings, you need to look at doing things differently; I'm just not sure gambling on a potentially big money loser vs. just OK exposure is the thing.

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It is $1200 for the whole band. I think I agree with you about booking our own tour. Its just the allure of getting to play real clubs with all of the ammenities that makes the buy in seem so cool.

I really appreciate everybodys response. Definitely a few things to think about.

bermuda said:

Exposure is a good thing, but if you're basically relying on merch to pay for your end of things, you have to ask if an opening band in clubs can sell enough merch to people who are there to see the headliner (and are prepared to spend their money on that band's merch.) I think we both know the answer to that.

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Dre25 said:

Re: the merch, I wouldn't expect many ppl to buy an unknown bands shirt so I'd just burn cd's, it will be much cheaper and you might recoup your costs quicker if you're not paying for the shirts to be made.

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Definitely, definitely have someone with a microphone say your band's name clearly. Maybe if you have a small banner or something that's easy to set up.

Speaking from my experience, I'll buy an unknown opener's CD if they're good. Shirts are also good but they HAVE to be well designed.

eclipseownzu said:

It is $1200 for the whole band. I think I agree with you about booking our own tour. Its just the allure of getting to play real clubs with all of the ammenities that makes the buy in seem so cool.

I really appreciate everybodys response. Definitely a few things to think about.

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It might great for you, and a lot of fun-- just don't screw yourself on it. It's a difficult decision...

The whole premise....pay to tour....very deflating. Kinda bums me out that the business has come to this. That's like me paying someone so I can do electric work on their house. Yea that's not going to happen ha ha. Completely unacceptable to me on a variety of different levels.

I give a lot of respect to the people who would do this, it's real dedication. Business-wise, it's not sound business practice IMO, with exceptions. (like if your local fan base is rabid about you guys and you are looking to expand). I'd rather build up a large following at home first than drive all over creation hoping you won't lose money. If the home fan base is skinny, isn't it better to fatten that up substantially before taking the show on the road to people who never heard of you? Better to be a bigger fish in a small pond than being a nobody in a big ocean. JMO.

I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just sad over the whole premise. I hope you tear it up, and at the end, I hope something solid happens that makes it all worthwhile. I hope you come out way ahead from where you started from financially or otherwise.

I've done both

done probably 15 DIY tours
and payed on to one tour .... and as a result was asked to play on the 2006 Warped tour

made a lot of good connects on the "buy on" ... had some fun.... got 3 free meals a day ... never touched or saw my gear aside form playing it... made our money back via merch sales ....

that being said .... I would never trade any of that for all of the experiences I've had on the DIY tours

there is something about being in the thick of it .... booking 2 months worth of shows yourself and connecting them to a reasonable route .... picking the bands you wish to go out with ...... rubbing elbows with the people.... brushing your teeth in a Walmart parking lot with a bottle of Poland Spring....eating pasta made on a hotplate where ever you can find an outlet ....lugging your own gear... sleeping on strangers couches .... not showering for weeks sometimes.... having impromptu jams in a random Guitar Center parking lot on a day off with a bunch of strangers and dragging them all to the next show..... etc.... that I love about the DIY

it is a very rare occasion that I tour anymore .... 12 years of constant touring was enough for me .... the money would really have to be right because I do pretty well as a hired gun these days.
but I do miss the lifestyle pretty much every day