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  #41  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I've always wondered about just having kick, snare and hats. Never tried it but in theory who needs the toms? You can play all the areas of the snare to get different sounds.Or turn them off. With hats, a crash is an open washy hit with the cymbals halfway open, and a ride is playing the bell of the top cymbal when fully open right? Or is this going too far? If you used big enough hats or even 16" crashes as your hats.. hmm...
I have experimented with minimalist setups when practicing, but have never been brave enough to try at a gig.
But there are many indie bands who try weird things. The drummer who uses no toms but one huge bass drum and only a huge ride cymbal. The guy who sits so low he uses a milk crate (yes, a milk crate) to sit on and can't imagine using an actual throne because he'll sit too high. The guy who plays every piece of his four piece kit including cascara on the drum shells, ride patterns on the cymbal stands, and uses both the reso and batter sides of each drum as he "circles" his kit. Anything is possible if you are willing to be adventurous.
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  #42  
Old 10-31-2013, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
I might start scaling back even more,as I'm a big fan of a Band called "The Reefermen".Their drummer uses a vintage Ludwig 4 piece and 1 crash ride and a chash,both on the same side.They do mostly covers,and the Best Zepplin medley I've ever heard(mostly instrumental),and their lead guitarist is excellent.What this guy can do with just a Strat and tiny amp is amazing.

Steve B
The Reefermen do really cool songs.
That's Todd Glass, and Bobby East is the guitar player. Yes, they're pretty dang awesome :-)
Very cool to see live, it's a good time.
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  #43  
Old 11-01-2013, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockNGrohl View Post
I've always wondered about just having kick, snare and hats. Never tried it but in theory who needs the toms? You can play all the areas of the snare to get different sounds.Or turn them off. With hats, a crash is an open washy hit with the cymbals halfway open, and a ride is playing the bell of the top cymbal when fully open right? Or is this going too far? If you used big enough hats or even 16" crashes as your hats.. hmm...
I saw Paul Hester, the late drummer of Crowded House, play with bass, snare, hats and a cymbal. Sounded great. I've played a couple of parties with that setup and it was fine, but both limiting and enlightening.

I think for most of us our kit is a compromise between sound, logistics and cash.
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  #44  
Old 11-01-2013, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

The second crash on my Rock kit is for show only. It looks really cool when I go back and forth between my two opposing crash cymbals. When I play my Jazz kit I have no dedicated crash cymbals.
All of my cymbals are for riding and crashing.
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  #45  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

At a recent gig,a drummer, who plays a 32" kick drum, told me that I didn't need so many cymbals.
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  #46  
Old 11-01-2013, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I also use only two cymbals besides the hats. I ride and crash them both. Hesitant to disclose what they are...but they are 17" and 18" 2002 THIN crashes. The best ride cymbals I have ever used!!! The wash is not as prominent as you would think. My 20" 2002 and Zildjian A Ping rides sit in a bag unused.
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  #47  
Old 11-01-2013, 04:31 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull View Post
At a recent gig,a drummer, who plays a 32" kick drum, told me that I didn't need so many cymbals.
Lol.

I like to have a wide array of sounds on my kit, so I have 16 cymbals, 5 of which being crashes.

On the rare occasion that I do go out for a gig, my kit gets cut down to hats, ride, crash x2 and a china.

Every now and then, I take all the cymbals off my kit and play with snare, kick and hats, just for a bit of forced creativity. I can appreciate doing more with less, but I really like having a ton of cymbals.
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  #48  
Old 11-01-2013, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I stopped using a 2nd crash basically because I didn't really need one anymore (and since one of them cracked after an unfortunately toppled cymbal stand) after I got my 20" HHX Omni. Beautiful crash and an incredible ride sound and I use it for everything. My rock band setup is based around just hats, crash, and ride (though I add in one or two chinas for fun & a few 'metal' parts in our songs) and I don't think I'd ever really need a 2nd crash for it. That said, though, I do want to get an even larger crash (21" byzance jazz or hhx legacy, maybe) for my right side because the crash on the Omni isn't the most open thing in the world and I want something I can really just lay into.
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  #49  
Old 11-01-2013, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

WOW, I can't fathom playing without at least 4 crash cymbals!
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  #50  
Old 11-01-2013, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurk1 View Post
WOW, I can't fathom playing without at least 4 crash cymbals!
It's ok. You don't have to play with less. I've just discovered that I'm playing with less all the time. Not only am I looking at the musical requirements, it's also gear, space, transport, all that helps in the decision too, but it's been mostly musical.
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  #51  
Old 11-01-2013, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

There seems to be something monotonous to me when every fill or accent has the same sound. I can crash on my 20" Cie Vintage but it's a pretty big sound. And the K Custom Med ride I use for louder gigs would have to be hit harder that I care to for a crash sound. With that up, I also like to ride on the 18" crash for a washy thing. I picked that K Dark specifically for a part time trashy ride for quiet gigs and a long sustain crash for louder ones. But there are parts in the song where I want the accent out of the way so a smaller fast crash goes up on the other side. I have a 14 A Custom fast, a 14 K Custom fast and a 15 K Custom Dark fast crash. I've done some with just the Cie and the 15, but then I find myself missing the in-between sound. There've been times when I put up some effects thing like a splash or stack for fun, but I don't think I've every played with more than 2 crashes. High/low, fast/slow gives enough variation.
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  #52  
Old 11-01-2013, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I picked up an old 20" 70's A Zildjian a couple month ago for the Garage band kit. I'm pretty sure it is a ride, but it crashes really well too. In fact, there are many sounds in that cymbal depending on how I play it. It's such a versatile cymbal that I have to remember how to play it for certain parts in the song. Hitting it the wrong way can really screw up a part because it crashes so easy.

There is also an old 18" 70's Marching Band Zildjian that I use for a crash on the right, but it makes a great ride too. It actually was the "ride" cymbal before I got the 20" "ride" cymbal for the set. On the left I have a 16" Paiste 200. It can sound good depending on how I crash it and when I crash it. It's not the greatest, but it's not so bad that I want to replace it yet.

For gigging, I just bring my 19" AAXplosion crash.
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  #53  
Old 11-01-2013, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
There seems to be something monotonous to me when every fill or accent has the same sound. I can crash on my 20" Cie Vintage but it's a pretty big sound. And the K Custom Med ride I use for louder gigs would have to be hit harder that I care to for a crash sound. With that up, I also like to ride on the 18" crash for a washy thing. I picked that K Dark specifically for a part time trashy ride for quiet gigs and a long sustain crash for louder ones. But there are parts in the song where I want the accent out of the way so a smaller fast crash goes up on the other side. I have a 14 A Custom fast, a 14 K Custom fast and a 15 K Custom Dark fast crash. I've done some with just the Cie and the 15, but then I find myself missing the in-between sound. There've been times when I put up some effects thing like a splash or stack for fun, but I don't think I've every played with more than 2 crashes. High/low, fast/slow gives enough variation.
Perhaps you're right on the monotonous thing. But I remember reading a Liberty DeVito interview back in the 80s when Billy Joel was big and he said when you play the big arenas, nobody ever hears the subtle variety you might have going on in your cymbal set, and for years back then he played with two crashes and a ride. Towards the end of his days with Joel he started to add more, but I tested his theory alot when I did sound at Disneyland for bands. Nobody could tell when the whole band was playing that there was this variation thing going on with all the different cymbals. Hell, nobody could really tell if you were using a china or a regular crash for that matter either. Once the band starts playing, it's "crash" or "ping" or "washy".
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  #54  
Old 11-01-2013, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Alas I am a hoarder. I just got rid of some "extra" shells..... I had 3 kick drums of differing sizes and toms of 8, 10,12,13,13,14,16 (yes 2, 13 toms) and 2 14 snares of differing quality.

Trouble is I couldnt decide which to get rid of..... space forced me to cut down to one Yammie stage custom snare, but it was like chopping a leg off.

Same goes for cymbals, I love the different sounds they bring to the "table" from the el cheopo ZBT dinner plates to my Bosphorous / Agops

When I have to cart my kit around I settle for some variation of 4 or 5 shells, hi hats, 20 ride, and a 16 and 18 crash.

When I dont and the kits at home the full range of toms 8 to 16 (minus a 13 and 14) and cymbal "types" get mounted...... hats, 20 hhx china, cheapy splash, 16" boz, 18 zild A, 18 zild K Dark and currently my Boz 20 " ride.

I love having the option of different sounds and types depending on what I want to play that day. If I could find away of setting up my 3 diferent pairs of"nice" hats I would...

Needless to say a whole room is taken up and I am not sure of the ergonomics of the set up.

All that being said I do enjoy a simple set up. Hats, Ride, 18 crash and very likely a 16 crash..... all of which ( bar hats) can be ridden and crashed....the most flexible being boz turk hats, boz vintage 16, zild K dark 18 and Boz 20 Gold series...of all the collection they offer great multi use options.

Alas instead of aiming at reducing my collection I am eyeing off different snares at present....... when will I learn !!
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  #55  
Old 11-01-2013, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Hmm, I have slimmed down the drums over the years for gigging and I'm mostly gigging with a 4-piece these days.
And I have dropped the splash and the china for gigs. But still love the second crash. One crash for each hand! And cymbals don't take up much space in the car, do they? (that's what I tell myself, anyway)

That said, if I HAD to, I would gig with hats, the K ride and one crash and I'd be just fine....
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  #56  
Old 11-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
There is also an old 18" 70's Marching Band Zildjian that I use for a crash on the right, but it makes a great ride too.
I thought I was the only one who did that. It's my secret weapon. I went for years without buying a "real" ride because it sounded so good. And half the reason for buying a "real" ride was so I can use the marching band cymbal as a crash if I want.
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  #57  
Old 11-01-2013, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I'm not big on crash cymbals; my 18" is as a much of ride as splash/crash in fact I use it more as ride. I use 2 20" ride cymbals and one in particular acts as a good crash as well.
I actually own a 16" but I don't think I have ever used it. It is a personal choice in the end, Moon had only crash cymbals for much of his career but of course he was very unique.
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  #58  
Old 11-02-2013, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I too only use two cymbals besides the hi-hat. Left i have an 18" crash and right a 20" ride, both Istanbul Samatya.
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  #59  
Old 11-02-2013, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

At home I play a 4 piece with hats, 1 ride and either 2 crashes/1 crash and 1 splash (only have those stands so I switch it about). However at the new rehearsal space my band uses I literally take my drumsticks and my throne. I just use hats, a ride and a crash for cymbals. I prefer playing with the extra cymbal next to my hats but does it bother me that much? Not really. Not enough to make me bring a stand from home and a cymbal.
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  #60  
Old 11-03-2013, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

It may just be me, but I don't think you can ever have enough cymbals.
I crash at least 4 times per song - is that a bit much? - and even do the hihat bit on the crash when I feel really awesome.
The only problem I have at the moment is I don't have a second crash so I have to use the ride...

cymbals rule!

Woooo!!!
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  #61  
Old 11-03-2013, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn Mogul View Post
It may just be me, but I don't think you can ever have enough cymbals.
I crash at least 4 times per song - is that a bit much? - and even do the hihat bit on the crash when I feel really awesome.
The only problem I have at the moment is I don't have a second crash so I have to use the ride...

cymbals rule!

Woooo!!!
I would think the musical requirements would determine when you crash and how many times? But hey, that's cool too.
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  #62  
Old 11-03-2013, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn Mogul View Post
It may just be me, but I don't think you can ever have enough cymbals.
I crash at least 4 times per song - is that a bit much? - and even do the hihat bit on the crash when I feel really awesome.
The only problem I have at the moment is I don't have a second crash so I have to use the ride...

cymbals rule!

Woooo!!!
A buddy of mine remarked after hearing playback of a session he did where they wanted him to "go for it" was all he heard was splish splash all over the place. That said, some older records have no fills at all, just an occasional crash where a fill would have ended. Restraint is hard to achieve, but I'd rather be the one to do it and keep the options open rather than restrict myself with a minimal kit. Of course I've never gigged with more than 3 toms and 4 cymbals so I guess I do have some restraint. Either that or a small car ;-)
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  #63  
Old 11-03-2013, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I am currently, not by choice, part of the 2 cymbal club. Hats, an 18" vintage K Zildjian, and a 20" El Rajah (possibly has Zildjian roots from what I have read, not much info on it other than it is probably from the 30's) and I am absolutely loving it. These two cymbals sound great as both crashes and rides. Their voices are completely opposite, the 18" is very dark and dry, while the 20" is very bright and pingy. I love the contrast I get when playing patterns on both at the same time.

Currently I am thinking that I don't want any crashes, just another ride and maybe a china. How funny is that, a metal drummer with only 2 cymbals! What is the world coming to?
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  #64  
Old 11-04-2013, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Losing that second crash cymbal

I love crashes. Sometimes I even use a large splash as a crash along with my standard pies. You can't take away my bronze, Obama!

Last edited by CreeplyTuna; 11-04-2013 at 03:13 AM.
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