A peek Inside a Copeland masterclass

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To these Copeland worshipers, he is their entire sky. They don't seem to understand that there is a whole world out there beyond him and that in that great big world, he is an average drummer.
Interesting take, but could use some clarification. To me, the world of drumming is just that: every drummer in the world. In this category, you are talking about millions of drummers, the majority of which are probably average to below-average. I don't see how you can equate Copeland with the average drummer you find on youtube. My honest opinion of myself is that I am an average drummer, and I am no Stewart Copeland. Now, if you are talking about the world of pro-level drummers, you might have a case. That world is flush with extremely talented drummers, and in such company, you might get away with calling Copeland "average," but I would still tend to disagree.

I like Copeland's playing but I like the playing of his influences better. That being said I could probably sit down and play anything he has ever played note for note and you probably would not be able to tell the difference.
Playing someone else's composition "note-for-note" is one thing. But a large part of a drummer's talent lies in his/her ability to create the composition in the first place, and especially the ability to create rhythms that are integral to the songs and the overall sound of the band. Say what you will about Copeland's playing ability, but without his drumming, The Police would have had a drastically different sound.
 
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But to say that one can play Copeland's work note by note, and there will be no difference in sound, is just as ignorant as one can be. Because that is exactly what separates him from the rest, his sound. This has been established by a lot of prominent drummers and professionals, far more qualified than you, and you sound as disrespectful as he did when he talked about Jazz.
So, the listener will be like, "That is Stewart Copeland", and for his surprise, it will be you playing? OMG!

I didn't say there would be no difference in the sound, I said that YOU couldn't tell the difference, which, if you are a Copeland worshiper, with the ears of a Copeland worshiper, is more than likely true. Hehehe.

Even your concept of ability, which obviously leave aside the principles of feel and touch, is not worthy of discussion, and to tell you the truth, you are assuming the same arrogant attitude he assumed about Jazz players, when you say you can play his thing and no one will tell the difference. As he said that anyone can play Jazz, you are saying anyone can play Copeland, and even sound like him, you both are very arrogant and both are wrong!

Wow are you touchy about your god. I see that this is a religious argument for you, and since nothing I say would do anything to open the eyes of the blindly faithful, I am just going to ignore your thoughts on Copeland. What do you know about my concept of ability? What do you know about my ability? Absolutely nothing. By contrast, we have Copeland's entire body of work sitting in front of us and it is frankly unimpressive when compared to the whole of drumming. I get that he is an everyman drummer. I get that he lets other average players feel superior about being average. That doesn't mean that I have to sit around and pretend that a naked emperor has a fine suit of clothing.

At least he had a point about some Jazz wantabes, that have no soul or feel, just chops. I guess that is why you are after him because he was talking about You!

He wasn't talking about wantabees, he said ALL JAZZ MUSICIANS ARE CRAP. That includes obvious geniuses such as Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Elvin Jones, Max Roach, etc.

You have become Copeland yourself. the difference is, you are not a Legend, so you really sound very arrogant, even more than him.

First, Copeland is famous. There is a big difference between being famous and being a legend. Paris Hilton is famous. Elvin Jones is a legend. Copeland, with his flamboyant attitude about drumming and his cult-like following, is more like Paris Hilton. Second, what does my fame have to do with Copeland's? This is an anonymous internet forum. As stated earlier in this very thread, famous drummers don't speak poorly of other famous drummers in public. I choose to remain anonymous. I'll leave it at that.

Because you are an average player, does not mean every Legend in the world of drumming has to be one.
Good luck with your incredible ability and feel!

How do you know what my drumming ability is? We know what Copeland's ability is from his body of work and it is average. The only place Copeland is a Legend is in the minds of a few very vocal and worshipful cultists. Your emperor is wearing no clothes. Learn it, love it, live it.
 
Interesting take, but could use some clarification. To me, the world of drumming is just that: every drummer in the world. In this category, you are talking about millions of drummers, the majority of which are probably average to below-average. I don't see how you can equate Copeland with the average drummer you find on youtube. My honest opinion of myself is that I am an average drummer, and I am no Stewart Copeland. Now, if you are talking about the world of pro-level drummers, you might have a case. That world is flush with extremely talented drummers, and in such company, you might get away with calling Copeland "average," but I would still tend to disagree.

I guess your average and my average is a different thing. I defined what my average was earlier in the thread, being plus or minus one standard deviation from the mean. Part of the reason I am saying Copeland is average is because I see all of this baseless worship going on. As I have stated before, I believe that novice players latch onto Copeland's misguided statements about jazz, practice and drum solos. The effect is that they stay average. So when I see one of these bubbleheaded Copeland worshipers floating by, I consider it a service to the world of drumming to poke the bubble with a pin.

Playing someone else's composition "note-for-note" is one thing. But a large part of a drummer's talent lies in his/her ability to create the composition in the first place, and especially the ability to create rhythms that are integral to the songs and the overall sound of the band. Say what you will about Copeland's playing ability, but without his drumming, The Police would have had a drastically different sound.

The Police would have had a very different sound indeed if Copeland had not listened to the Wailers and Reggae. Copeland's style is largely borrowed from other drummers. It is just that he is one of the more famous drummers to have played the reggae style.

This brings to another point about the effect that fame seems to have on one's status as a 'Legend'. Society at large seems to worship celebrity. Paris Hilton is famous so she must be like the coolest person ever to walk the face of the earth right? If someone is a famous TV chef, then they must be an excellent chef right? Drummers are no different. Copeland is famous, therefore all sorts of attributes are assigned to him whether he deserves them or not. As you can see if you read back in this thread, I have been scolded for criticizing Copeland because he is famous and I may or may not be. This of course ignores the fact that I am remaining anonymous intentionally so the people leveling this charge have no idea who I am or what I have achieved in music. Furthermore, as has been stated in this thread, famous drummers do not, as a rule, criticize other famous drummers. Just looking at all the baseless insults that have been hurled at me by the Copeland worshipers on this thread explains why.

So what are we to do with famous drummers? Since people who are not famous are not allowed to criticize famous drummers, and other famous drummers are loathe to do so, are we just supposed to bow down and worship fame? That seems to be the overall gist of this thread. How dare anyone criticize Copeland the sacred cow! I guess this is the situation that the novice players worshiping Copeland so deeply envision for themselves. They want to live in a world where no one can be criticized for average playing ability. They want to do away with practice as a concept for bettering yourself on the instrument. They want to do away with the whole concept that some drummers are better than others. If Copeland (an average drummer) is hailed as equal to Elvin Jones (an argument made over and over in this thread), then by extension, the average novice drummer is the equal of Elvin Jones. YAY! We all get to have our self esteem, albeit unearned. I'm sorry people, but 2+2 does not = 5. You can't make up a new reality just to make yourself an excellent player. If you want to master the instrument you must practice. You must sacrifice. You must approach things with a keen eye for reality.
 
One other thing. There seem to be a lot of shrill voices trying to draw a distinction between the 'touch and feel' of a drummer and his chops. The conclusion we are supposed to draw is that drummers who have a lot of chops have no feel and are thus inferior. We are not supposed to draw the opposite conclusion, that drummers who have a lot of 'feel, soul, and touch' but no chops are inferior drummers.

The is no such dichotomy. If you look at drummers who are undeniably masters- Gadd, Vinnie, Weckl, Jones, Williams, Roach and too many others to mention, they have both chops and feel. What the Copeland worshipers are trying to do is redefine mastery so that there is no practice needed.
 
I guess your average and my average is a different thing. I defined what my average was earlier in the thread, being plus or minus one standard deviation from the mean.
OK, yeah, I see your earlier post.

As I have stated before, I believe that novice players latch onto Copeland's misguided statements about jazz, practice and drum solos.
Yeah, as I stated before, he has an oddball personality. They probably shouldn't take the things he says too seriously.

The Police would have had a very different sound indeed if Copeland had not listened to the Wailers and Reggae. Copeland's style is largely borrowed from other drummers. It is just that he is one of the more famous drummers to have played the reggae style.
Sure, everyone has influences. The Beatles would not have sounded as they did if they had not listened to and borrowed from Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley, but I don't think that diminishes them as musicians in any way. I would add that reggae is just one style that Copeland adopted and adapted. He was American born, but grew up in the Middle East and later moved to the UK. As many musicians do, he soaked up the music around him like a sponge, and I do hear elements of rock, punk, middle eastern, and african rhythms as well as reggae in his playing. Even though he was influenced by these forms of music, he did develop his own style. As a result, he's one of the few drummers I recognize instantly when I hear him play. I recall hearing "Big Time" by Peter Gabriel for the first time and instantly recognizing Copeland's drumming, even though it's a fairly basic beat. I don't think that would be possible with someone who is just a carbon copy player.
 
Monstermook, you are slipping from hamfisted to outright insulting. Reel it in or take a hike.

Did I overread something? As far as I can see, he is the one getting insulted, not the other way around.

Nice thread. Very entertaining. Very very hard to stay out of because it woul only lead to more trouble.

:)
 
This is a very small world - both in terms of the drummers out there and the topics which dominate this forum. Essentially the same issues crop up again and again in the threads that take off and again and again, it is the voices of experience and intellect that try to set the record straight. Bravo to Matt, Aydee, Steamer and others. I suspect that Monstermook overstated his thesis at the beginning but really did a good job defending his thoughts against the fan-boy tirade which traditionally erupts when someone's hero is portrayed as less than the essence of perfection. The points set forth by Mm (in bullet form) are hard to disagree with. This does not, however, and should not cheapen the opinion that someone already holds of SC. If you love him, love him!

[Note to Monstermook - please never, ever post in the Neil Peart Thread].

Setting aside the ignorance of Stewart Copeland's comments on jazz (which raised the ire of most jazz musicians I know when maybe they just should have ignored them and let them go away - I mean who really cares what SC thinks about Coltrane and Max Roach), and accepting that Monstermook may have a different definition of "average" than others it is hard to deny that Stewart's sound is instantly identifiable and his style, within the context of that sound, elevated his stature among drummers. That, after all is one of the goals of artistry. I have to confess that I really love his playing. It is also hard to deny that on live recordings he picks up speed like a bullet train.

The comments by Mm and Matt, however, about young drummers attaching themselves to an ill thought out philosophy which promotes mediocrity and decries the ability to actually play and wiggle your fingers (only brought about by years of realistic and focused practise) is exactly right. Quite simply there is no philosophy or valid thought process which justifies a lack of practise or dedication and to subscribe to one is merely an attempt to hide laziness and inability behind a flawed rationale.

Overall a good thread. Mm - no criticism from me - but I am surprised you were not called out on your anonymity. The internet is a place where experience is easy to claim and truth easy to conceal. Please note, I am in no way doubting your claims just expressing surpise that others did not jump on you.

Oh, and one side note: The clip attached early on in this thread showing a drummer playing on Stewart's kit in Philly (described as "Joe the Plumber") shows Aaron Kennedy, a good drummer and a great guy. Aaron owns and runs the largest drumming school in Europe located just outside Dublin and he currently has more than 300 drummers enrolled. He does as much as anyone to promote the community of drummers and we should all support his goals!

Paul
 
Oh, and one side note: The clip attached early on in this thread showing a drummer playing on Stewart's kit in Philly (described as "Joe the Plumber") shows Aaron Kennedy, a good drummer and a great guy. Aaron owns and runs the largest drumming school in Europe located just outside Dublin and he currently has more than 300 drummers enrolled. He does as much as anyone to promote the community of drummers and we should all support his goals!

Paul


Yeah, but can he solo?










.....( .........kidding Paul/MM......... )
 
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Overall a good thread. Mm - no criticism from me - but I am surprised you were not called out on your anonymity. The internet is a place where experience is easy to claim and truth easy to conceal. Please note, I am in no way doubting your claims just expressing surpise that others did not jump on you.

Ah Ha! I figured it out. Monstermook you have been made!! Your anonymity is a facade! You are Joaquin Phoenix! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1IncP6xjfg&feature=related
 
Ah Ha! I figured it out. Monstermook you have been made!! Your anonymity is a facade! You are Joaquin Phoenix! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1IncP6xjfg&feature=related

Good detective work! :/

FWIW: my liking of Copeland is limited to the fact I enjoy the music of the Police. I have accepted that he has been called mediocre, doesn't affect me, and compared to other drummers he probably is. The word "worship" in my context is an extreme viewpoint, and a complete exaggeration to think so. I am more deeply into the police than I was ever into Copeland himself. His views on jazz are his opinion...agree or disagree. I don't have to concur or dislike him because of that. I despise rap...so sue me, it has no bearing on any other aspect of life.

I let the thread go because of the direction(s) it was taking. Not too many drummers have been picked at both personally and professionally like this, especially personally. The thread even had a deletion because it did get out of hand, which is the main reason I just watched.

MM stated his case and made good points. He also dissected arguments effectively. Copeland is no Elvin Jones. I don't even place Copeland on par (as a drummer) with a number of local drummers I know that have a larger scope of tools and paint on a broader drumming canvas. MM is passionate enough about other drummers achievements so that it comes through in his case against stratifying Copeland. Solid logic, if at times a little brutal.

I like Copeland's kit, it's very cool. The sound of the police got me into octabans, and opened the door for me in the early 80's to explore more raggae and jazz. That's not a bad thing, as the music of the police eventually led me to (IMO) better drummers like Dave Weckl, Joel Rosenblatt and Carlos Vega.

Mediocre drummer? Not going to argue that. Mediocre impact and influence? no way.
 
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Good detective work! :/

FWIW: my liking of Copeland is limited to the fact I enjoy the music of the Police. I have accepted that he has been called mediocre, doesn't affect me, and compared to other drummers he probably is. The word "worship" in my context is an extreme viewpoint, and a complete exaggeration to think so. I am more deeply into the police than I was ever into Copeland himself. His views on jazz are his opinion...agree or disagree. I don't have to concur or dislike him because of that. I despise rap...so sue me, it has no bearing on any other aspect of life.

I let the thread go because of the direction(s) it was taking. Not too many drummers have been picked at both personally and professionally like this, especially personally. The thread even had a deletion because it did get out of hand, which is the main reason I just watched.

MM stated his case and made good points. He also dissected arguments effectively. Copeland is no Elvin Jones. I don't even place Copeland on par (as a drummer) with a number of local drummers I know that have a larger scope of tools and paint on a broader drumming canvas. MM is passionate enough about other drummers achievements so that it comes through in his case against stratifying Copeland. Solid logic, if at times a little brutal.

I like Copeland's kit, it's very cool. The sound of the police got me into octabans, and opened the door for me in the early 80's to explore more raggae and jazz. That's not a bad thing, as the music of the police eventually led me to (IMO) better drummers like Dave Weckl, Joel Rosenblatt and Carlos Vega.

Mediocre drummer? Not going to argue that. Mediocre impact and influence? no way.

This was a good post.

Seeing that monstermook was by far this thread's most aggressive Copeland detractor, I for one appreciate your change of heart from believing that anyone wishing to explore another perspective is a full out Copeland basher. I also agree that monstermook not wanting his identity revealed so as to imply the presence of a discreet famous drummer, was a lot of foolishness and a common forum tactic. We have plenty of big names around here, and if they can come out and play, so can he///if he was in fact a big name. Yeah, that's just my opinion, but he did open the door.

Still I saw genuine personal attack come his way that was also unwarranted. How many people here either intimated or flat out accused him of not being able to play? Well if he's anonymous, how does one judge his abilities? Some of you merely engaged in conjecture passing as something else. Still monstermmok, the anonymity gimmick did you no favors.

I have directly addressed the above/trkdrmr/ poster because he claims to have placed several of us on his ignore list when I know he has done nothing of the sort. Moreover, if he did go to the trouble, there is no permament ignore as has been claimed. You merely uncheck the guy's name and he's back on.

A lot of people here like a nice spirited debate, and I for one am willing to address any number of issues in a non obstructive way, that fall within the guidelines of forum culture, meaning that conflicting opinions are addressed with the same set of rules, and when someone doesn't think a pov is valid, they list those reasons without attacking the other pov over some kind of pretend ethical/personal concern, when they're really only mad they didn't prevail in a debate, which by the way is much different than an argument. Moreover, the I don't argue with children chestnut is long overdone as a refuge of last resort by some who are only frustrated by the quality of their own words.

With all that said /positive and not so much/ as an American I greatly appreciate your service. Although we may disagree about drumming, I'm very much in your corner there.
 
You and I know that, but these young guys coming up with no idea of context have no clue. I have seen guys who are beginners and have very little technique or ability latch onto his words and take comfort in them. The may not have had ability at the time but they had potential and Stewart's words and ideas handicapped them. I'm sorry to point out reality, but learning to solo is part of mastering the instrument.

...

I'm sorry, but the he was only joking defense does not hold water. Neither does the he is too complex for you to understand defense.

And by the way, Copeland was a drummer of average drumming ability. He is a much better composer than he is a drummer.

Just a follow-up note: I never meant to imply an argument based on the premise that "he is too complex for you to understand." I was not really trying to "defend" Stewart from the point of view of a mad Stewart fan; rather, I was concerned about the reckless attacks being made about his ability and playing. Whether you like him and his comments about jazz or not--or whether you take offense at his joking use of arrogance or not--I do not think you can just use this as an excuse to unload a bunch of venom on Stewart's playing, style, contribution to drumming, and his variety of music, which is what I saw Mm do with his flat-out claims of Stewart being "average." That claim is just opinion, not analysis, and it reminds me of some of my more reckless students who say things like, "Andy Warhol--that's not art. That's crap. Anyone can do that." To pass off this opinion on others so domineeringly and condescendingly, which is how I interpreted the ensuing fierceness of Mm's tone (which is, additionally, why I think Dogbreath warned him), seems just as brow-beating on an audience as Stewart's misguided jazz remarks. It is an uninformed and unprovable claim, really. It is just Mm's opinion. And if you are familiar with Stewart's total body of work, you know that to call his playing or musical ability "average" is untenable. He pioneered a unique style of playing with The Police, has very good chops, has written several ballet scores, operas, film scores, and has incorporated a wide variety of world music and classical music into a lot of his post-Police work. The evidence is there to show that he is a well-established, well-respected musician. Do not confuse a person's ridiculous remarks with her or his ability or place in music legacy.

When I wrote about artists and complexity, I simply meant that good artists and their works are complex objects--they provoke a lot of reactions, as this thread sort of testifies. Quick judgment and bad analysis lead to reckless claims that a player is not "as good as" another or is "average," etc. Perhaps a clear example of this can be borrowed from literature: recall the vitriolic feminist attack in 1990 on Bret Ellis's use of graphic violence in American Psycho, when such readings largely misunderstood the tactics and satire Ellis was employing in the novel. Is his novel offensive? Sure, it can really upset some readers easily, just as Stewart's remarks ignited some ire of jazz players, and that's fine. We are entitled to get rattled. But if that anger or annoyance slips into claims that Stewart is "average" or Ellis is a "bad writer or average writer" (and such things were said about Ellis, and worse), then I think intelligent debate has stopped and judgment has taken over. And when this happens, debates are pointless--it just becomes people arguing over issues that cannot be proven; it is emotion over reason, and such an argument will never fly in a classroom, seminar, or, hopefully, forum.

That said, I think Mm still raised good issues and ultimately helped to draw out a lot of smart responses from various posters. I totally agree with Mm's point that learning to solo is a key component to mastering the drumset, and that Stewart's remarks can help to fuel the younger crowd of drummers that Mm's alludes to in his quotation above. I just think we have to be careful about making blanket statements about artists, drummers, etc., and this warning would most definitely apply to Stewart as well! That is what I meant by discussing "complexity."

I apologize for bringing in literature as an example. I am not trying to be pretentious or anything like that--it is just a lot of humanities training coming out. My apologies in advance if my post comes across that way--I'm just trying to clarify a point.
 
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Just a follow-up note: I never meant to imply an argument based on the premise that "he is too complex for you to understand." I was not really trying to "defend" Stewart from the point of view of a mad Stewart fan; rather, I was concerned about the reckless attacks being made about his ability and playing. Whether you like him and his comments about jazz or not--or whether you take offense at his joking use of arrogance or not--I do not think you can just use this as an excuse to unload a bunch of venom on Stewart's playing, style, contribution to drumming, and his variety of music, which is what I saw Mm do with his flat-out claims of Stewart being "average." That claim is just opinion, not analysis, and it reminds me of some of my more reckless students who say things like, "Andy Warhol--that's not art. That's crap. Anyone can do that." To pass off this opinion on others so domineeringly and condescendingly, which is how I interpreted the ensuing fierceness of Mm's tone (which is, additionally, why I think Dogbreath warned him), seems just as brow-beating on an audience as Stewart's misguided jazz remarks. It is an uninformed and unprovable claim, really. It is just Mm's opinion. And if you are familiar with Stewart's total body of work, you know that to call his playing or musical ability "average" is untenable. He pioneered a unique style of playing with The Police, has very good chops, has written several ballet scores, operas, film scores, and has incorporated a wide variety of world music and classical music into a lot of his post-Police work. The evidence is there to show that he is a well-established, well-respected musician. Do not confuse a person's ridiculous remarks with her or his ability or place in music legacy.

Very well said.

I am just curious. Lets talk about some drummers that, maybe not legends or Greats, or maybe indeed they are.
The thing is, forget about Copeland, lets say, we are going to mention some others, that can be identified by their playing, immediately when heard. like " That is x", or, " I know who that is playing the drums, that is x's sound".

Just to see if or not, that should be considered when calling a drummer average.
Lets say Peart, for me one of the Greatest Inspirations in my young years to play drums, and remember, I am not making comparisons with Copeland here, I said , lets forget Copeland for a second.

Peart is, IMHO, one of the few drummers that, by his sound and playing ,can be identified as the one drummer playing, his 8" and 10" toms are tuned high in a way, not many drummers tune theirs, plus, the chops, accents, style and overall sound, lets one to actually know that he is the one playing.

Alex Van Halen,forget about the chops, double bass, washy crashes, lets talk about his trademark snare sound, that sound has remained the same for years, and is one of the few, one can identify very quickly, with the drummer in question, That is Alex, eyes closed.
Bonzo, that snare sound is a trademark that one can actually tell in seconds.
There are not many like that, I just mentioned a few. I am not talking about technical expertise, chops, mechanical ability, or the ability to solo.
I am talking about sound. And maybe some feel! But mostly sound!
Is that a quality that can be qualified as average, even if the drummer is not the most technical or fast?

That is my question.
I think uniqueness is a quality in the drummer that needs to be respected, because from the multitude, its not easy to stand out only by your sound, to create such a unique sound that actually its easy to be identified, only by your playing style or sound.
That has to count for something.

I do not know if Alex qualifies as a Master, legend, or Great, I only know that his snare drum sound is unique, an identification mark, you know that is him.
More examples are welcome, but I just mentioned some that will be easily recognized by most.

Are those players average?
Now, lets bring Copeland back, his snare sound, unique, a trademark, you know that is him.

How do we qualify that? It doesnt have to be part of a solo, or complicated roll or fill, just a stroke, you know right there who is it.
Uniqueness, does that count as the Quality of the Greats, or at least can be qualified as a legend, or a legendary sound? Or still one can be unique and average? It may be.
Comments welcome.

The Ryctor!
 
First I need to apologize. I need to be better at taking insults and not responding in kind. I even have to admit that my tone got a little aggressive over a few posts. It is an easy thing to do and I will try to reread things several times before hitting the submit button. I can't promise perfection but I'll at least make an effort.

Second, I wish to remain anonymous. That is not a gimmick, that is just me protecting myself. If I am to post honestly on any subject, I need to stay anonymous. I have never claimed my status as a professional or my playing ability or my fame or anything else should lend any weight to what I am saying. In fact, I have stated that using my identity to validate my argument would be argumentum ad verecundiam and would thus invalidate my argument.

Finally, I pose the question - how much of a person's playing being unique and easily recognizable is due to the fact that you have heard them so many times?
 
Second, I wish to remain anonymous. That is not a gimmick, that is just me protecting myself. If I am to post honestly on any subject, I need to stay anonymous. I have never claimed my status as a professional or my playing ability or my fame or anything else should lend any weight to what I am saying. In fact, I have stated that using my identity to validate my argument would be argumentum ad verecundiam and would thus invalidate my argument.

Finally, I pose the question - how much of a person's playing being unique and easily recognizable is due to the fact that you have heard them so many times?

I recognize the sound of an axe grinding. I have heard that sound before.
 
I am assuming that is directed at me. I assure you that I am writing out of a genuine and sincere concern for younger players.

Since you are so fond of legal terminology, out of concern for our youth:

You have stated your case. You have supplied your evidence. You have argued your case.

The jury knows that you believe with no reasonable doubt:
- Copeland is a mediocre drummer
- Copeland is overrated
- Copeland is not original.
- Copeland should not have debased Jazz

I can see your points and concur on all the above. Your case is air tight.

Instead of actually reading my post(s) about my kit, I was accused of Copeland worship, when I plainly stated the inspiration for my kit was the Police synchronicity tour, and the sound of his octabans on "One world, not 3". I also mentioned Steve Smith and Todd Sucharman as my inspirations. IMO, Both are far superior drummers to Copeland. In fact, I am awaiting some troll to accuse me of worshipping Todd Sucharman when my second kick arrives and it no longer resembles Copeland's kit. I mentioned all those guys have similar setups...but that got glossed over for divisive reasons.

Anyway... being that you have stated your case, and effectively argued the point attacking the same points from different angles is like twisting the knife in his back. It is axe grinding to simply continue beating him up from every dielectic POV. IS there a statute under the law that a drummer can't have made some arrogant remarks at one point?

No young person will be ruined if they pick up sticks and learn all of Copelands drum tracks. And compared to rappers (who seem to go to jail at the rate of 2 a month now) Copeland isn't the worst example. Even if he was, who cares about an obviously young punk attitude he once had? He is where he is at now (after MILLIONS of albums sold) because that's where he wants to be. He makes the music he wants to make.

Perhaps if he printed a formal apology to all jazz aficionados and then took lessons from Freddy Gruber all would be right with the world. But I have the suspicion that your issues with Copeland run much deeper than what has been said so far...thus fueling the continued railing against all things Copeland.
 
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