Dumb question about push/pull

So I watched Bill Rays video demonstrating the push pull technique. Bill demonstrates an easy way to show how it's done. I decided to try it. Of course Bill makes it look completely easy, and when I do it, well I really can't do it.

As I was attempting it, it occurred to me that the goal of push pull is to get 2 strokes out of one hand. It's still 2 motions.

So I'm saying to myself....why not just do double strokes?

See I told you it was dumb. The only upside I can see to push pull is being able to roll with one hand. But how often is that done outside of a solo situation? Like I would love to know how much Bill Ray uses his push pull for one handed rolls while accompanying others.

Is there any benefit other than the one handed rolls? Short of a one handed roll, would double strokes cover everything else that push pull does?

larryace said:

Is there any benefit other than the one handed rolls? Short of a one handed roll, would double strokes cover everything else that push pull does?

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Probably not except that I think this technique would help with honing that feel in grooves that have opposing rhythms. You know triplety hi-hat or ride patterns with 2 and 4 kick and snare.

Let me simplify. What is the main reason a person learns push pull? To do what exactly?

To the people who use it, how and where do you use it?

I think Gordy Knudtson has an excellent youtube clip on this!

Not really interested in learning it. It really doesn't fit into who I am as a drummer. I would have to force it in. I am however curious as to it's application.

To be able to play faster strokes with a different and some would argue more efficient technique. Along with that, depending upon the speed at which you want to play certain notes, it would potentially free you from having to play those notes with both hands and you have the use of your other hand for other notes.

I know this sounds pedantic but to the best of my reasoning, I don't see any other purpose for it.

I don't use this technique although I do loosen my grip considerably when I'm getting extra funky on the hats.

I'm just trying to think how I would use it with what I do. It would be good to play a fast ride pattern with I bet.

Unfortunatelly Push Pull is very easy to sell on videos ;-) But it is not for self teaching. It is a technique that gives speed and power to single strokes and works well also for doble strokes. But it is really hard to master.. You really need a "qualified" teacher. Not someone who studied from a book with pictures then shows it to you. If you force it you are at risk: tendonitis.

I spent 1,5 years with a teacher to' get my singles up to' speed confortably

When i play it is incorporated in my technique, you dont necesarily see all that flashy push pull motion going on.

larryace said:

I'm just trying to think how I would use it with what I do. It would be good to play a fast ride pattern with I bet.

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Maybe to do a fast floor tom ride and kick pattern and then bonk around with your left hand for accents elsewhere on the kit.

Like on "Redhouse" at the intro you can work the floor tom slowly but later on toward the end if there's a big build up you can speed that same section up and get fancy with left hand accents. I don't know, I don't think this technique really suits my playing. I'm not very chopsy or fancy.

I use it when playing fast tempos, much easier, and also shuffle beats. Works great once you get used to it. And it creates some flow to it since the every other beat is push and the other pull. (English is not my language as you surely can tell, hope you understand what I'm saying.)

When i first saw Push Pull on Youtube, i thought it was one of those gimmick techniques that was pretty cool but nothing i could use. I started messing around with it and it did wonders for my double stroke rolls and made shuffles a breeze to play at any tempo. Up tempo ride patterns ( variation of push pull) and one handed sixteenths are easier to play as well. Took me about a year to really get to a level that i could use it consistently. I'm no master at it but i'm improving everyday. I have found tons of uses with this technique with less fatigue. I'm a big fan of push pull.

If you're doing fast shuffles on one hand, you're probably already doing a form of push pull to get them in time.

I typically use it for situations like fast 8ths or 16ths with one hand. There's a quick point to hit where it's uncomfortable to just bang out each note, so I go to really only playing the first note, then as the stick comes back, snap it down with my fingers/wrist to get a free second stroke out of the deal. It lets me keep up the tempo a long longer and not have to switch to two handed which makes lots of patterns impossible.

I do use the technique for doubles also, and triples, and so forth. It's just one way to get more notes out of less movement and effort.