Over practice?

hey, i have been drumming for about 5 years now. I have upped my practice times to about 5 hours everyday recently. I am finding though that every 3 straight weeks of this i have to take a couple days off just because my drumming starts getting sloppy instead constantly improving. I don't think its cos i am physically tired and some other drummers i know have suggested it may be because constantly playing rudiments, excercises etc. has made me mentally tired.
Does anybody else get this or is it just me?

cheers

Wow! 5 hrs. a day?! I could never do that!

Sometimes I feel like I've overpracticed when I start hitting my self in the eye, ears, nose (face in general) or fingers ;]

I don't get enough sleep at night to overpractice. i just couldn't last that long physically, however, I think you're on to something with the mental strength thing. Your brain can only take so much before you finally just stop learning from practice.

haha i have hit myself in the face quite a few times, never in the ear though.
Not 5 hours in a row, in like an hours warmup session then a couple of 2 hour sessions. Ye I reckon mentally tired probably is it. Especially seeing as goin through stickings in my head actually keeps me up at night hahaha

TomRichwood said:

hey, i have been drumming for about 5 years now. I have upped my practice times to about 5 hours everyday recently. I am finding though that every 3 straight weeks of this i have to take a couple days off just because my drumming starts getting sloppy instead constantly improving. I don't think its cos i am physically tired and some other drummers i know have suggested it may be because constantly playing rudiments, excercises etc. has made me mentally tired.
Does anybody else get this or is it just me?

cheers

Click to expand...

It probably is just taxing on you mentally, BUT, someone has told me this before (actually quite a few people). Your ears improve faster than your playing does, so basically the more your hearing yourself play the more youre able to hear the faults in your playing because your ears are improving at a faster rate than you are.

The fastest way I've found to improve (besides actually playing the drums) is to record

yourself and listen. Nothing can give you what this does, and the perspective you gain is

immeasureable. You could go on for months even years thinking you are "sounding

great". Better to listen to the results instead of assuming that if it feels good it is good. It

doesn't always work like that. I know I've played many times where I thought it felt great

and on playback I was like, what was I thinking? So if you're not doing so, record some of

those 5 hours a day and see if it sounds as good as you think it does, just for good

measure.

the big question is - what exactly are you practicing for that long? And are you working on anything with a teacher?

It's possible to break down your practice time into specific skills: hand technique, stick control, foot technique, foot control, 4-way coordination, independence, tempo variations and speed, groove, styles, dynamics, mobility around the set, rudiments, transcription, playing along with recordings,... there are lots of suggestions in other threads on how to break down a practice session - just look around and they shouldn't be hard to find. And if you're breaking things up in an interesting and varied fashion - it's not hard to find ways to easily burn through 5 hours a day.

Anyway - the point is, I'm not sure if you're taking full advantage of the time that you're spending. If you're feeling like things are going downhill - you might not be diversified enough in your approach. Recording your practice sessions is a good suggestion too - although it seems like you might want to only record 10% of your practice time because you also have to have time to critically listen to what you've recorded and 5 hours a day adds up pretty quick if you're trying to listen to all of it!

It also helps to set goals and have a way to measure your progress (that's where having a teacher can be helpful). Working on specific pieces or songs can give you another thing to work on.

Good luck! You've definitely got the dedication!

cnw60 said:

the big question is - what exactly are you practicing for that long? And are you working on anything with a teacher?

It's possible to break down your practice time into specific skills: hand technique, stick control, foot technique, foot control, 4-way coordination, independence, tempo variations and speed, groove, styles, dynamics, mobility around the set, rudiments, transcription, playing along with recordings,... there are lots of suggestions in other threads on how to break down a practice session - just look around and they shouldn't be hard to find. And if you're breaking things up in an interesting and varied fashion - it's not hard to find ways to easily burn through 5 hours a day.

Anyway - the point is, I'm not sure if you're taking full advantage of the time that you're spending. If you're feeling like things are going downhill - you might not be diversified enough in your approach. Recording your practice sessions is a good suggestion too - although it seems like you might want to only record 10% of your practice time because you also have to have time to critically listen to what you've recorded and 5 hours a day adds up pretty quick if you're trying to listen to all of it!

It also helps to set goals and have a way to measure your progress (that's where having a teacher can be helpful). Working on specific pieces or songs can give you another thing to work on.

Good luck! You've definitely got the dedication!

Click to expand...

I usually just warm up with different things to work the muscles in my hands and legs like one hand 16th note rolls at about 130bpm, then the same with feet. Then just concentrating on singles, double and paradiddles. Then just go tthrough some basic groves and add trickier time signatures in just to get my mind working. That takes up a warm up hour for me.
My first 2 hour session usually is just playing through different tracks i have learnt, making sure its pretty much note for note so i know i could be okay in a session environment. I also tend to do imrpovised rolls around an accent, sort of like practicising a drum break in a stop chorus. Then just add beats to the stop chorus to test my counting. Then i go through band tracks for a little while. Play through different genres of music, perticularly my weaker ones. Just have a bit of a groove and stuff, usually practice different things i have seen on drummerworld like yesterday i was learning the aaron spears fill from his caught up remix, love that fill. Then i usually finish of by working on my double pedal stamina (only every 3 days) just playing blast beats at high speeds or slower speeds playing 16th notes on the kick then adding quick 32nd note bursts.
Then for my last 2 hours I usually go through the percussive arts society's 40 rudiments on a practice bad then a work out pad then usually a pillow. Then trying to put them all together to make sort of a solo idea that i can move onto the kit, also put a bit of thought into how i can develop the rudiments into interesting fills and beats. Then i am also now staring to learn the same rudiments on double pedal cos i just got a pedal practice pad, but i reckon thats gonna take a while.

Oh and ye i do have a drum teacher that i go through a lot with, always gives me little bits and pieces that i can learn, and interesting ideas that i can manipulate.

cheers for all the replies though i will definately use the recording idea, i did it a while back now and i remember picking out a few bits so i will try and start doin it a bit more regularly.

I think that your are pushing yourself to a level that you're uncomfortable with. 5 hours a day is a lot of time, and you need to be prepared physical and mental, because you can get sloppy.

My suggestion is: if you used to practice 4 hours before you move to 5, go back to that 4 hours (or the time you were comfortable with) and add "extra blocks" of 10 or 20 minutes, one by week.

If you feel that you need to do that fill again, or play that bridge one more time, and your practice time is over, you'll be on the right way. Otherwise, if your thinking is "Just 10 minutes and I'll be done" you need to reduce again your practice time. You've got to enjoy the practice as well as the playing. Remember, practice is not a goal itself, playing music is.

treat it like work. for every 2 hours you get in take a 15 minute break to relax and listen to music. lie down or something. you can practise for as long as you want, but, you need breaks. it would be like trying to live life without sleeping.
so just play around figure out how to rest, when to rest etc.

Just take a day off every week or two. You will come back invigorated.

Don't think that a properly planned 5 hr practice day is "overpractice". Many legendary drummers put in more than that every day for years.

Also, make sure you get enough rest, drink water and eat well. (Although that could be said about any activity)

I think overpracticing is self-imposed. Last summer, I had a lot of time on my hands, so I went from a 3 hour/day practice regimen to a 6 hour/day practice regimen, and for the first day, I was unbearably tired. I was studying under the principal percussionist for the St. Louis Symphony at the time, and he told me to basically suck it up and come up with as many creative ways of practicing scales and rudiments as I could. So I started inventing all kinds of cool ways to play scale patterns on marimba, as well as playing rudiments forwards, then backwards, then forwards again, etc. I think just mixing things up a lot helps.

Obviously you will want to have some times of very consistent, tedious practice, and it can get repetitive, but dont be afraid to play around with how you practice. It will take some of the boredom away and STIMULATE your creativity instead of SUPRESS it!

Resting is really important for my practice routine... if I feel that I'm playing sloppy or I just can't seem to nail down an exercise, I just take a break from it.. it can even be just 1 minute, the important thing is that you should completely stop thinking about the exercise, drums and everything related. Just stand up from your throne and go do something else, maybe drink something if you feel thirsty, or just go outside and breathe some fresh air.. it doesn't matter as long as you stop practicing to let your mind and your body absorb what you've been doing so far...

usually when I get back to the drums it takes me no more than 2 minutes to get the exercise right..

hope it does make sense

cheers

My teacher often noticed that when struggling with a passage, a break or coming back to it the next day, was far better than persevering with it. I whole-heartedly endorse the recording suggestion, but don't be discouraged if you don't like the results.

You might also be better off spending some of that practice time with other musos.

Just a thought.

Davo

Yeah, I think you can definitely over-practice and it's different for everyone. I have way more endurance physically and mentally than I did three years ago. Someone like Max Weinberg who plays marathon four-hour concerts for Bruce Springsteen and plays every night on Conan O'Brien's show probably has more stamina than any of us. Just look at it like lifting weights or training for long-distance running.

Yep, you can over practice. Eventually you're mind just kinda goes into confusion and you find yourself doing the same thing over and over. I like to practice for a little bit, take a break, and come back. I would learn more in ten minutes than I would one hour.

The neural connections in your brain can only adjust so fast. It needs lots and lots of rest to re-arrange and optimize everything. It's very, very helpful to at least rest whenever you feel ready to. A 20 to 30 minute nap before or after any of your sessions would do wonders. I practice transcendental meditation, and I love to alternate between playing and meditating all day.

I was playing 20 hrs/week last year for months on end, and was surprised by how my body responded. I felt anxious if I didn't play every day, and I spent a lot of time sleeping. I was also going to school full time, so 2-3 hrs a day of practice meant I had to 5 or 6 hour sessions on weekends quite often. I have to double my yoga routine and spend time on an inversion machine to keep my body from straining. Things get intense especially if you are interested in serious foot endurance. It's hard on your hips at first.

It's not just about how long you can practice, although adding time is almost always beneficial. I've cut way down on practice, but my hand and foot technique is still improving steadily because I can warm up in the morning, then play several 5, 10, or 20 minute drill sessions between homework assignments. If you can get warmed up in the morning, you should try to set up practice pads around all your workspaces and carry sticks around. Throw down any chance you get.

This is what I've been doing lately. Strangely, I moved to a different school and am lucky if I practice 5 or 6 hours a week now. I can play well after I warm up, but it's a very different feeling. It almost feels foreign to get behind a real kit because all I have is the pad kit here at my apartment. I can play grooves rock solid still, but, again, it doesn't feel the same. I love to practice regularly. Everything smooooooooothes out.