Overlooking the practical use of rudiments

K.Howden

Senior Member
I'm not sure if this just comes with living in a small city in a rural county that some could claim is quite "backwards looking" but I've had some interesting conversations with other drummers locally over the past year and something that has come up regards rudiments other than the single-stroke roll.

Most, if not all of my fills are based off various combinations and hybrids of diddle-rudiments. The reason for this is that I've never been the best at single-stroke rolls (something of course I am working on).

It's usually at sound checks that I break out the pad to warm-up etc and it's that wonderful period of time where you can really chat one-on-one with other musicians and I often get asked what I'm practicing (bear with me I am going somewhere with this!). Something that's come up from these chats is the view that "rudiments" aren't really applicable to "real" drumming, have no use and that they're more self-indulgent than anything, seen as "ooo look at these fancy things I can do"...almost with elitist connotations.

It's been amazing to see how the reaction of said drummers at sound-checks when I explain to them the practical reasons why I use other rudiments to produce what is for all intents and purposes the same as they do with singles as well the other cool possibilites that are just not possible with singles (or at least very easily). For me the reason I use them is that I find they're actually easier than singles! And I do hold the belief that the single-stroke roll is one of the hardest rudiments to master. For most of these guys it's the first time they've actually been shown how and why rudiments are there and they seem to go away with a brand new appreciation for them and a desire to actually use them in their own playing and it's a great thing to see.

What this all boils down to is that in my opinion, the explaination of how to use rudiments in a practical manner is vastly overlooked on the whole! or at least it is over here. Rather than saying "here's the sticking, go practice it" we should be saying "here's the sticking, go practice it but first let me explain WHY you should learn them".

Again this could be a local thing, I don't know, but the vast majority of drummers I've talked to around the country have a really stigmatised view of rudiments and I think it's a real shame because there's so much you can do with them in a practical setting.

Anyway it's been a bit of an essay but thanks if you got this far!

Hope you all have a fantastic new year!

Kev
 
"rudiments" aren't really applicable to "real" drumming, have no use and that they're more self-indulgent than anything, seen as "ooo look at these fancy things I can do"...almost with elitist connotations.

If that is the general attitude of local drummers in your area, it's pretty clear that not a lot of thought energy is directed at their drumming. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad drummers.

You can still be a great drummer without knowing the rudiments, but at least some of the rudiments are being incorporated in their playing anyway, albeit unwittingly...

It's kinda sad really. If they don't see the value in making the mental leap to try and understand how to apply the rudiments to their playing, they are missing out.

What you described sounds like someone who is making excuses why they don't need to work on anything.
 
Hahah, If you think Lincoln's backward-thinking, you should try Wales ;)

...As a general rule, most of the drummer's I've met in seven years of playing know a fraction of what most people on this forum know, so I wouldn't be suprised by it. I wonder if the UK just doesnt have the same drumming standards, or maybe drummerworld member are the cream of the crop everywhere in the world!

Rudiments on their own don't have a practical use, if you just go up to a drum kit and play a double paradiddle on the snare for a whole song; But what people don't seem to understand is that a paradiddle is such that it practices the change between double strokes and single strokes perfectly. Any flam rudiments are useful because, well, flams are useful full stop. And every rudiment is just an efficient way to practice some technique you'll use for playing, so they're totally relevant.

Most of my fills have always consited of single strokes over the years, so practicing doubles and paradiddles really opened up a huge range of opportunities.
 
Great points guys,

Larry you said it right there, the main thing I'm getting at with this thread is that it seems people over here just aren't interested in developing their minds and coming up with different solutions and different possibilities. It seems that the people who do are labelled as "show offs" in this part of the world and it pains me to see that happen.

Kev
 
...As a general rule, most of the drummer's I've met in seven years of playing know a fraction of what most people on this forum know, so I wouldn't be suprised by it. I wonder if the UK just doesnt have the same drumming standards

Sad to say but I think you're right...if you think about it, the lastest innovator to come out of the UK is Gavin Harrison, before that? Well you'd have to go back to somone like Bill Bruford and the British drummers that came to the fore in the seventies and developed upon their concepts through to the ninteen-eighties.

It may well be a cultural thing, the drumset was born in the U.S. so the cultural significance of the instrument and drumming is part of the core of music over there and indeed all modern music post 1920's, maybe it's just something we can't relate to in the same way over here?

Hope you're well,

Kev
 
Or maybe its the importance of the snare drum and drum lines in the USA, which we have no equivalent for over here.

It would certainly explain why we don't take rudiments as seriously, when the US has a tradition based on nothing but snare drum rudiments.

Anyway, time to get off drummerworld and go for a New Year's eve Indian. To hell with tradition!

Have a good night :)
 
It's not a localized attitude. Some guys just don't feel they have to learn anything new, they can say what they want to say with their existing skills. Not talking just drummers here, or even musicians for that matter.
 
Rather than saying "here's the sticking, go practice it" we should be saying "here's the sticking, go practice it but first let me explain WHY you should learn them".

Yes, the "WHY" is the important part, otherwise there's no incentive. When I do hand technique lessons over Skype (or here in Nashville) I always make sure the student can see his/her deficiencies and understand why their approach isn't working nearly as well as the more correct approach. The light bulb always needs to go on where they see and understand the correct approach that makes things easier to play and sound better--that's addictive!

These days people seem to love information. There's a ton of it out there on the net (and some of it is actually good!), but they often completely miss the application. A qualified teacher with some "truth serum" can turn good info into good application where otherwise a drummer could practice wrong their whole life (and many certainly do).
 
There are two types of drummers.

Those who play rudiments and don't know it, and those who play rudiments and know it.
 
There are two types of drummers.

Those who play rudiments and don't know it, and those who play rudiments and know it.

hahahhaa that is such an awesome post i think ill send u a christmas card this year!

anyways not sure the "practical" applications but i know that my hand speed, coordination, and facility benefits from practicing them so thats good enough for me

its kinda like that workout video p90x our muscles plateau after practicing the same thing all the time we as drummers should practice "muscle confusion" and work our hands (and feet) in as many different ways and combinations as possible and the rudiments give use 40 different ways to improve our playing

if u take two drummers one that practices just singles and the other that practices singles and paradiddles i bet u the second drummer will have a much stronger single stroke roll than the first guy
 
Sad to say but I think you're right...if you think about it, the lastest innovator to come out of the UK is Gavin Harrison, before that?

Kev

Is that fair? Has Gavin innovated or is he just an outstanding drummer who'se found success? Let's not forget guys like Mark Mondesir, Gary Husband, even the guy out of Muse. These are drummers who are highly respected amongst other player internationally. There's a domestic professional scene bubbling away that are full of highly accomplished players. Consider Bob Armstrong's alumni alone . No doubt though, America consistently gives rise to the next level players. It's an American art form.
 
This is a really intresting thread. I think it comes down schooling, Americans have the whole marching band culture, in general (from ive been told by mates grown up in America) Americas schooling is better when it comes kids getting involved. Cheerleading and the whole youth football thing and marching band thing breeds excellence.

We dont have that in the UK. We however have a lot of great players, many of which arnt on the drumming scene but are heavily involved in music scene....which is something we have in the UK.

Also you may be right about where you come from......I come from near bristol and worked in the drum shop there. There are at least three great teachers that have been teaching there for 20 years now and taught some of the leading talents in the uk. Guys like James Hester (sesion player), Ian Matthews (kasbian) there are many more bristol based drummers who have learnt from these teachers who great players that have a base in rudiments. My point here is that there are Good teahers in Bristol- good teaching in America....perhaps not enough good teachers where you come from Kev.
 
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I think that some guys get turned off by drummers that only seem to play rudiments for speed. You know the guys that can play flam accent #1 at 350 bpm but cant apply it. I believe rudiments are important. I belive being able to preform each rudiment at a good speed is important. But the most important thing is using proper technique and knowing how to apply the rudiment in your playing.
 
Rudiments are to drums what scales are to a toned instrument. They are the building blocks of everything we play as percussionists. Anything we play on the kit is derived from a rudiment whether we're aware of it or not.

Just like scales, of course the number of rudiments will naturally morph and grow as drummers get better at executing and become more creative in applying them. I don't see a problem with people claiming there are X number, but at the very least, to be take seriously as a "musician" or scholar of our instrument we should know the first 26.

Would you want to play in a band with a bunch of guys who don't know how to play scales, or how those notes apply to chordal and harmonic structure? That would be a complete mess. Just because our instrument doesn't play tonal notes, it doesn't mean we don't need to be accountable for our contribution to the musical situation we're in.
 
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