Vintage Vs. New Supraphonic

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As I am sure many other people here are, I am a John Bonham fan. I love the tone and the great sound he can get out of his kit, more specifically his snare drum. I know he used a 6.5 inch deep Ludwig Supraphonic, and i think it sounds fantastic. I have an old 5 inch deep Supraphonic from 1968, and tried to tune it as best as i could to the sound Bonham has, but can not quite get it. Once I get the money, I was going to get a deep Supraphonic like Bonham, but wondered if the newer ones would sound like the older ones. I am aware that new or old Supras sound amazing, but was wondering if indeed i could get that Bonham sound with a newer one, or if I should hunt through ebay and try and get my hands on an older one?
 
well i hear that kinda like guitars, the tone of old and new drums are a bit different.
 
I've got a 5" 1968 Supra too. One of my previous teachers has a modern 5" Supra and it sounds a fair bit brighter and has more overtone. The vintage drum seems to have a lower fundamental tone, that could just be my head though.
 
I recently got my hands on a 1976 6.5x14 Supra, and I tried a new 6.5x14 Supra at a local music store. I can honestly say there wasn't much of difference, sound-wise.

Also note, that even if you get a vintage Supra, put a coated Emp on it, and the whole nine yards... It still probably isn't going to sound exactly like Bonzo's. Alot of his sound had to do with the mics, mic placement, how he hit it, the acoustics of the room, etc.

But if the opportunity arises for you to get a Supra, of ANY sort... Go for it! They are amazing, versatile, good-looking, good-sounding drums! (and not to mention they're pretty darn light...)
 
I've heard both new and old 400's and 402's. Agree with Caddy and Mr. L, if there was a fundamental difference then I put it down to heads and tuning. To my ear the tonal qualities of the drum haven't changed. A Supra sounds like a Supra.....of any vintage.

I own a '65 400 and a 90's 402. Whilst it's inaccurate to A/B the two different depths, both of them still scream Supraphonic. Old or new......they all sing!!
 
I did a side by side with a friend of mine's LM 402 6 1/2 deep drum.His is a 71,mine is a about 2 years old.Same exact heads,snare wires(both changed for the test)drum stand,mike,drum angle,and head tention/tuning using a drum dial.

Verdict:eek:ut of the 7 drummers who listed to the test live,only 1 guy said he heard a very slight difference.Some will still swear there is a big difference,but most will say there isn't I think.You can even order the drum with a B&O badge if you want.Lots of youtube vids out there as well as the Drum center of New Hampshire and the Memphis drum shop vids.I prefer the Drum Center because he lets you hear the drum in 3 different tunings.Check it out and remember opinions are subjective,and this is just my opinion.You have to listen and make up your own mind.Good luck..

Steve B
 
I recently got my hands on a 1976 6.5x14 Supra, and I tried a new 6.5x14 Supra at a local music store. I can honestly say there wasn't much of difference, sound-wise.

Also note, that even if you get a vintage Supra, put a coated Emp on it, and the whole nine yards... It still probably isn't going to sound exactly like Bonzo's. Alot of his sound had to do with the mics, mic placement, how he hit it, the acoustics of the room, etc.

But if the opportunity arises for you to get a Supra, of ANY sort... Go for it! They are amazing, versatile, good-looking, good-sounding drums! (and not to mention they're pretty darn light...)

ya thats a good point, didnt Bonzo set-up his kit in a stair-well for most of the songs on Led Zeppelin IV? Thats what i heard. I think that is awesome for him for finding new ways to produce sounds that he wanted...cuz really who would take apart their kit, move it to a stair-well in a house, and set it up their, not to mention all the recording equipment there too. And thankyou to all for your insight into this matter. It has been helpfull and I cannot wait to get my hands on a new or old LM 402!
 
ya thats a good point, didnt Bonzo set-up his kit in a stair-well for most of the songs on Led Zeppelin IV? Thats what i heard. I think that is awesome for him for finding new ways to produce sounds that he wanted...cuz really who would take apart their kit, move it to a stair-well in a house, and set it up their, not to mention all the recording equipment there too. And thankyou to all for your insight into this matter. It has been helpfull and I cannot wait to get my hands on a new or old LM 402!

Yeah, for one album. Although, give the credit for the idea to Page and not Bonzo.

They recorded using The Rolling Stones' mobile recording unit....a great idea for recording outside of a studio environment. Many bands of that era hired the mobile to record with. Deep Purple even wrote a song about it.

Good luck with your drum.
 
I have owned a lot of snares in the past few years tryng to find that perfect main snare..About a month ago I found it in a 100 year aniversary 6.5 Supraphonic...so its a newer one and I love the sound of it...I will never have to buy another snare and if I do it will be another 6.5 supra due to this one getting damaged..I had a vintage 5" with the super sensitive throw and liked it, but much prefer my 6.5 for the heavy rock I play...its just the perfect snare drum...heres a link to the thread I posted reviewing all the snares in the 200-400 (used) range I have owned...
http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74262&highlight=snares+I+owned+with+review
 
OK, let me throw some new food into this thread. I too am a Bonham fan, I have a vintage green sparkle kit, 1970 (maybe you've seen it on here, it's in the show off your Ludwig's thread) anyway, I have done alot of research on the sound of vintage vs. newer supras. Here's what I came up with....

Some very knowledgable people that deal in vintage drums, especially old Ludwigs, told me some interesting facts about the supras. I was told that somewhere around 1978ish, the company changed the alloy of the shell and have slightly altered certain components of the alloy as a cost cutting measure. I'm not sure what that was..maybe slightly more zinc..something like that. Also, the lug casings were made cheaper and had plastic inserts inside rather than the old spring loaded model. Lastly, the rims on the older supras were thinner which allow slightly more resonance from the shell. Some say that the older supras just have a slightly sweeter tone.

I have a 2002 model 402 and a 1976 model 402 (6.5x14). There isn't a whole lot of difference in the two, but I have to say that the 1976 model is a tad sweeter sounding. The 2002 model just sounds slightly more metallic, where the 1976 model has that pop and crispness that supras are known for. The 2002 model does too, just not quite as sweet.

So there you have it. The sources that gave me that info are extremely reputable, Jack Lawton, the renowned vintage Ludwig drum restorer was one, along with several other supra fanatics. Be careful buying new supras as Ludwig is placing rubber gaskets under all the lug casings and snare butt and it's sucking the life right out of the drum. Why would they mess with such an historic and classic sound? If you buy new, take those gaskets off...it makes all the difference.
 
Be careful buying new supras as Ludwig is placing rubber gaskets under all the lug casings and snare butt and it's sucking the life right out of the drum. Why would they mess with such an historic and classic sound? If you buy new, take those gaskets off...it makes all the difference.

I got a new 402 about five months ago and the first thing I did after playing it a few minutes was to disassemble it and remove all the rubber gaskets. It sounded more open and like a 402 "should" sound after the pile of rubber was removed. Dunno what Ludwig was thinking when they started messing with the success of something as venerable as the 402.
 
Dunno what Ludwig was thinking when they started messing with the success of something as venerable as the 402.

I think it's as simple as them following what the industry has been doing for the last few years. It seems like almost everyone is using lug gaskets, and I think Ludwig just wanted to follow along.

This is a case where it really seems unnecessary though. I'm glad they ditched the springs holding the lug nut inside the lugs, but I think the gaskets go too far in changing the tone of the drum.
 
So did the supras have no lug gaskets before? You think there would be something between a metal shell and metal lug to prevent scraping between them.
 
So did the supras have no lug gaskets before? You think there would be something between a metal shell and metal lug to prevent scraping between them.

It isn't a moving part, so there shouldn't be any scraping.

And no, the lug gaskets have only been added in the last couple years, prior to that, nothing and it has never been a problem.
 
hhmm, thats weird that they would just change their best drum, thats been around for over 50 years by putting gaskets that they did not have on them before.
 
+1 on that.That is exactly why Ludwig did that.It was cheaper than tooling up for deeper lugs.Personally I have no problem with splay and I think the slight outward angle of the tension rod astually keeps the drum in tune better.

Steve B
 
Coated emperor
Hazy ambassador
42 strand wires
STRINGS
that’s all you need
It will sound the same
 
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