Drumming in the pre digital age.

I was just sitting here considering the impact on myself as a drummer as a result of the internet. It is just collossal, gigantic, enormous, monumental, humungous , gargantuan....

Great googley-moogley if I had to go back to the way it was up until about 1990...knowing what I know now...it would be like being banished to Siberia.

Basically speaking...I had NO ONE to talk to about drumming for 38 years. 1970 to 2008. OK I had some teachers, and I did know a handful of drummers, but there was no community. Modern Drummer was my lone monthly pilgrimage. I used to roll every drumstick I got on the glass counter of my local music store, much to the ay-yi-yi-ness of the petrified music shop owner.

I had so much drum stuff in my head, all my life, even after 15000 posts it just keeps making itself fresh every day.

That's why I post so much here because I went through 38 years of almost total drummer isolation. The only other drummers I talked to were guys in my local scene. And it was nothing like what is discussed here.

If it wasn't for DW, I wouldn't have this vast library of gear knowledge, attitude knowledge...I shudder to think. My horizons have been so expanded....I've traveled to England and California through the kindness of members here, memories that I will treasure forever. I've always wanted to see California but never made it, and England was the first European nation I wanted to visit. Done and done.

The point is, where the F would I be without all this. I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but my drumming really started turning around in 2008, the year I joined here. I could tell by the reactions I was getting, I started to find my groove. I think this place is largely responsible for it. It's like a pressure relief valve for me. Imagine having to go back to the way it was? No YouTube?

(runs away screaming)

AHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm sorry for the novel.

Uncle Larry..i am one of the "silent" followers of ur posts and honestly i learn a lot from ur views....you are one of the few from which i learn ....

I don't really think the pre-digital age / drum forum has changed my actual drumming at all. But I agree it's good to hear others opinions and ideas. The drum magazines had it there way for too long and were not always that objective.

Gear wise the internet shows that the differences between many brands of cymbal / drum is actually minute - certainly a maple ply kit is errrrr a maple ply kit beyond that it's all vanity/marketing and maybe hardware preference but not sonic. In a blind test I can't tell a similarly specicified Ludwig, Tama, Yamaha etc. however I still stand by the fact that Ludwig supra snares are way over hyped, but that's the beauty of it all... I can express my opinion, which bucks the concencus and others can take it or leave it.. Cost them nothing.

Oh hell yeah. Metronome apps, youtube, drumless tracks available for download...and of course this forum.

I already done told you, Larry, that you personally have had a huge effect on my drumming. A few words of good advice can go a really long way, and have some really long-lasting impact. I'm glad I came across this place. My drumming has never been better.

Pachikara-Tharakan said:

Uncle Larry..i am one of the "silent" followers of ur posts and honestly i learn a lot from ur views....you are one of the few from which i learn ....

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Geez thanks man golly garsh

Captain Bash said:

I don't really think the pre-digital age / drum forum has changed my actual drumming at all. But I agree it's good to hear others opinions and ideas.

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I find this hard to believe. How can you not be influenced by it? You drum and think exactly the same as you did pre-internet? Not being combative, I just can't fathom it, it's like being dunked in water, you're gonna get wet.

philrudd said:

Oh hell yeah. Metronome apps, youtube, drumless tracks available for download...and of course this forum.

I already done told you, Larry, that you personally have had a huge effect on my drumming. A few words of good advice can go a really long way, and have some really long-lasting impact. I'm glad I came across this place. My drumming has never been better.

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C'mon you're killing me here! This isn't about me! I still haven't deleted your PM man, it's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. Except for maybe Spleen. I still have his too.

But yea, how about those internets?

This forum is the most value I get out of the net these days. I always imagine you guys are so much better than I am that whenever I play I pretend I'm playing in a room full of DW members watching. Makes me amp up my game. So you guys are making me a better player in a way!

Ya without a doubt, learn something every day on here.
I wished I had joined DW earlier than when I did (2011 I think). Would have saved me from making some unwise choices before then.

Larry: I'm 1000% with you on this.

I came back to drumming two years ago and if it were not for this forum, as far as drumming knowledge goes, I'd be stuck in 1970.

There has been a lot of changes to drum hardware and innovations since 1970.


.

I'd like to hear people's stories when they drummed pre internet. Here's some random ramblings:

Got Bongos for Christmas 1967. I was 9. That and a bunch of Nehru shirts with gaudy medallions. I looked like such a smacked ass lol. I had already memorized In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by then. I pitched a fit because I wanted my own Iron Butterfly record because my older brother wouldn't let me play his as much as I wanted.

Next Christmas, 1968, I got my first set, gold sparkle Stewarts. 12/14/20. I was 10. I remember wadding up newspaper and putting it inside to get a nicer tone. Moleskin on the batters too lol. Drumming along to Alice Cooper's "Love It To Death" and "Killer". (a few years later)

My first teacher, I was probably 15, this was like 1974, taught me heel down bass drum and introduced me to linear patterns, although they didn't stick. He called it "3rd hand" because you use the bass drum like a tom. He used to drive up in this funky red white and blue station wagon. He was probably 21. My current mostly heel down bass drum technique was due to him, and I am grateful for it. I don't even remember his name lol. My next teacher was 10 years later and this man showed me hand strengthening exercises that I am even more grateful for. My teachers were responsible for my particular technique today.

The only other thing I had was the musicians I knew, and it was all about rehearsing and playing out when we could. We'd come home after school, inhaled stuff, and rehearsed in my basement. When we could drive we rehearsed in rented spaces in addition to my basement.. I had that and Modern Drummer magazine.

I saw this band Pegasus and the drummer was the best I'd personally seen in my local scene, and I asked him where he learned to play like that and I got his teacher to teach me. (my 2nd teacher) He was 50 miles away, in Metuchen NJ, and that guy helped me tremendously. I would never have the same hands if it wasn't for this guy.

I read about Eames drumshells in the back of Modern Drummer. I drove up to Saugus Massachusetts in my 1974 - 4 speed Camaro, visited Joe's shop, and ordered a set of drums. My first Custom set, circa 1983. I still have them.I took a loan out for them. I forget how much they were, maybe 1500? 12,13,14,15,22. I hadn't yet discovered the 10" tom

I've owned a Tama Bell Brass in about 1980,which I sold for 100 bones a few years later. I paid 500 for it and wasn't crazy about it lol, edges were so sharp. I might like it today though. I've had a Blue Oyster Pearl bowling ball set of vintage Luds that I got brand new with proceeds from an illegal side business. (It was 1976 fercrissakes) They sold for 100 in 1980 ack. (I thought they were dogs lol. I just didn't know how to tune them) That's why I went with Eames after the Luds. I wanted a perfectly round shell. Ludwigs were the reason I'm all anal about perfect shells. If I had Rogers first, I'd be a totally different Larry lol.

In September 1984 at age 24 when my band lost yet another singer, I decided I wanted to live in a house someday and hung up the drumsticks to learn how to make money. This is right when the Blues bug bit me, and I listened to Blues almost exclusively for like 20 years without hardly ever playing. Then I resumed music in late 2003 after my business had a life of it's own.

Yes, no doubt, a huge pre/post impact in terms of communicating opinions on everything pertaining to our instrument.

Not just forums but the capabilities with YouTube, Mp3's and so much else available, there's certainly no shortage of what is possible and what's available.

I was fortunate to grow up with friends and a dad who were total drum nerds long before me. So, there was still much to share in the 70's/80's. Most importantly, I had amazing qualified teachers... So for me, my fill of information came long, long, long before the internet.

No doubt - Modern Drummer mag was "it". Inspiration and knowledge from that came in leaps and bounds. My dad purchased me my first issue around 1977 and just kept them coming at me.

Now we are at a time where so much of what's provided needs to be discerned by the end user whether good or bad. Hopefully useful/valid teachers can keep newbies grounded and focused. A sea of information can lead to overload and many "diversions" which can create chaos and confusion. This goes for gear, technique, materials and general information.

Like a carpenter with tools - so many to use -need to select wisely learn how to use accordingly.

I've learned some things from the web but thinking back to the late 70's, never in a million years dreamed there would be this much opportunity for minute-by-minute interaction on the topic.

I've only been drumming during the digital age (on an actual kit, anyway), but I tend to take a very analogical approach to it. Like, yes, I do use the internet when it come to drumming, but just for the information.

When I buy something drum related, for instance, I love going to the shop and seeing it with my own eyes, touching it with my own hands, hearing it with my own ears, ...I think I'll leave tasting and smelling out of this one. Anything that I use to make a sound, has been purchased in a brick & mortar store. Other things, like stick bags, or other "equipment," I will look up online - and if the price is good, I'll purchase it that way.

I will say, that almost all of what I have learned about playing the drums, tuning, head selection, pedals, sticks, etc., I have picked up right here on DW. Many of you have given me straight honest feedback and have taught me many things. By reading through Andy's and Larry's posts (some of which confuse me, I mean, the self-indulgent craziness, really!?!), I have become very proficient at tuning and understanding some of the sonic properties regarding what my drums are doing when I play them.

I guess for me, the drums are analog and the info is digital.

larryace said:

I was just sitting here considering the impact on myself as a drummer as a result of the internet. It is just collossal, gigantic, enormous, monumental, humungous , gargantuan....

Great googley-moogley if I had to go back to the way it was up until about 1990...knowing what I know now...it would be like being banished to Siberia.

Basically speaking...I had NO ONE to talk to about drumming for 38 years. 1970 to 2008. OK I had some teachers, and I did know a handful of drummers, but there was no community. Modern Drummer was my lone monthly pilgrimage. I used to roll every drumstick I got on the glass counter of my local music store, much to the ay-yi-yi-ness of the petrified music shop owner.

I had so much drum stuff in my head, all my life, even after 15000 posts it just keeps making itself fresh every day.

That's why I post so much here because I went through 38 years of almost total drummer isolation. The only other drummers I talked to were guys in my local scene. And it was nothing like what is discussed here.

If it wasn't for DW, I wouldn't have this vast library of gear knowledge, attitude knowledge...I shudder to think. My horizons have been so expanded....I've traveled to England and California through the kindness of members here, memories that I will treasure forever. I've always wanted to see California but never made it, and England was the first European nation I wanted to visit. Done and done.

The point is, where the F would I be without all this. I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but my drumming really started turning around in 2008, the year I joined here. I could tell by the reactions I was getting, I started to find my groove. I think this place is largely responsible for it. It's like a pressure relief valve for me. Imagine having to go back to the way it was? No YouTube?

(runs away screaming)

AHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm sorry for the novel.

Click to expand...

I suppose this could be true. The community here is great, and the exchange of ideas (so long as don't disagree with anyone {just KIDDING}) is really refreshing.

But sometimes I find myself having to sift through incorrect information. I mean there's so much misinformation out here in the cyberworld. If you didn't get hardwired a certain way before the internets on how you like your drumming, and developed as a person, I can totally see why new players are just paralyzed by the analysis of being here.

As a player, there's still nothing better than getting thrown up on stage with an unknown band and learning how to fend for yourself in those situations. Really, that's the only way it can happen, or you'll never be you, right? As a student, I think you have to commit to an approach, otherwise, if you try every new approach you run across on the 'net, you'd never get to a finished product of who you are.

I like the internet, and I like being helpful and contributing to this great community, but I still advocate people just turning off the internet, and joining some kind of band. Then you should share those experiences on the internet. With pictures and recordings

This internet fad is pretty impressive.

And, since maybe 8 years ago, you can find out anything you want to know from your damn cell phone.

larryace said:

I was just sitting here considering the impact on myself as a drummer as a result of the internet. It is just collossal, gigantic, enormous, monumental, humungous , gargantuan....

Great googley-moogley if I had to go back to the way it was up until about 1990...knowing what I know now...it would be like being banished to Siberia.

Basically speaking...I had NO ONE to talk to about drumming for 38 years. 1970 to 2008. OK I had some teachers, and I did know a handful of drummers, but there was no community. Modern Drummer was my lone monthly pilgrimage. I used to roll every drumstick I got on the glass counter of my local music store, much to the ay-yi-yi-ness of the petrified music shop owner.

I had so much drum stuff in my head, all my life, even after 15000 posts it just keeps making itself fresh every day.

That's why I post so much here because I went through 38 years of almost total drummer isolation. The only other drummers I talked to were guys in my local scene. And it was nothing like what is discussed here.

If it wasn't for DW, I wouldn't have this vast library of gear knowledge, attitude knowledge...I shudder to think. My horizons have been so expanded....I've traveled to England and California through the kindness of members here, memories that I will treasure forever. I've always wanted to see California but never made it, and England was the first European nation I wanted to visit. Done and done.

The point is, where the F would I be without all this. I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but my drumming really started turning around in 2008, the year I joined here. I could tell by the reactions I was getting, I started to find my groove. I think this place is largely responsible for it. It's like a pressure relief valve for me. Imagine having to go back to the way it was? No YouTube?

(runs away screaming)

AHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm sorry for the novel.

Click to expand...

Been sitting here trying to think of some way to respond and maybe add something to the sentiment, but you said it all, Larry. What can I say? I relate completely.

GeeDeeEmm

I'm not super techincal, even though I'm only in my 30s, so I'm just getting going on this forum, but it's been eye-opening.

I'm lucky in that music has allowed me to travel the world and meet a wide variety of people/musicians. However, I don't come across many drummers, sonce I'm usually the one doing all the drumming. Most of my friends/colleagues have the same classical -> jazz background and all love music history and musicology. Some of my fondest memories are dirnking sherry with the other musicians before the gig and dsicussing Bartok, or Jimmy Blanton.

Hearing from drummers that are more interested in rock and roll and other genres really helps create a diverse sense of community among drummers. I love reading the posts here, and they've introduced me to so many things:

- Microphones - I've never had to deal with mics, and most musicians that I work with are like me. Here I was able to get all kinds of information on microphones
- Drummers - Everyday someone mentions a drummer I've never heard of on here and I love checking them out, especially if they aren't my style at all. And it amazes me that everyone knows these people and they've been completed unknown to me.
- Gear - I love being able to read reviews on gear, as it's difficult to find a try gear before I buy it.
- New Techniques - I've heard about all these new techniques people use now that I would never have heard of in my world: open handed, burying the BD pedal, matched grip for more than just timpani, et cetera...

tcspears said:

I'm not super techincal, even though I'm only in my 30s, so I'm just getting going on this forum, but it's been eye-opening.

I'm lucky in that music has allowed me to travel the world and meet a wide variety of people/musicians. However, I don't come across many drummers, sonce I'm usually the one doing all the drumming. Most of my friends/colleagues have the same classical -> jazz background and all love music history and musicology. Some of my fondest memories are dirnking sherry with the other musicians before the gig and dsicussing Bartok, or Jimmy Blanton.

Hearing from drummers that are more interested in rock and roll and other genres really helps create a diverse sense of community among drummers. I love reading the posts here, and they've introduced me to so many things:

- Microphones - I've never had to deal with mics, and most musicians that I work with are like me. Here I was able to get all kinds of information on microphones
- Drummers - Everyday someone mentions a drummer I've never heard of on here and I love checking them out, especially if they aren't my style at all. And it amazes me that everyone knows these people and they've been completed unknown to me.
- Gear - I love being able to read reviews on gear, as it's difficult to find a try gear before I buy it.
- New Techniques - I've heard about all these new techniques people use now that I would never have heard of in my world: open handed, burying the BD pedal, matched grip for more than just timpani, et cetera...

Click to expand...

Funny, my limited impression of you was that you were one of the fortunate working pros who does it old school. I don't know how accurate that is. It's weird hearing you list things that you got here that are new on you.

This place is just drum central, the only portal you need for drumming. All the knowledge of many many drummers are contained in the archives. It's unprecedented if you think about it. All my info is initially inspired by something I see here.

This humble little website contains a huge portion of the collective drumming knowledge of the world, all in one place, free of charge. These kinds of great things shouldn't be taken for granted.

Conversely, it's impossible for me to imagine being a drummer outside of the digital age.

Being in my early 30s, I think I remember starting to use the internet maybe around the time I was 14 or 15, which coincides with when I started playing kit.

I was immediately able to access a dearth of information on tuning techniques, head combos, cymbal sounds, differences in shells and bearing edges. Probably the most important thing was just the access to different kinds of music. Being a teenager with lots of free time in the early days of Napster was just mind boggling in terms of the development of my ear, just absorbing the sounds of so many styles of music (and implementing them poorly in my own endeavors!). It was just really eye (mind) opening, but it's something that I sort of take for granted now, and my rate of consumption has slowed now that I'm older and more busy, getting set in my ways, and finding that new stuff is exciting less and less.

That being said, I don't really talk drums with any local people either. One of the reasons is that I haven't met many local guys who are into the details like I am. Another reason is that there isn't really anybody that's doing anything where I have to ask how they did it. There are several guys who are very impressive and doing great things... but thanks to the internet I know what techniques they're using (even if I can't do them). Thanks to the internet, there's just not a lot to talk about, because the information is already out there. But also thanks to the internet, I can talk to these guys about more interesting things.

Dammit, Larry! I've always wanted a bell brass! I would have given you 200 for it. Haha

I value the fact that as a young player in the 80s I learned nearly all of what I knew by listening to records and figuring out the likes of John Bonham, Neil Peart and Billy Cobham by ear.

It took a certain amount of persistence and discipline.

But now, 30 years on, it's fantastic to have this massive digital drumming resource at my fingertips.

For me, actually watching great drummers in action on YouTube has improved my playing no end.

To be able to see the Steve Gadd 'Aja' breaks, or the 'Purdie shuffle' broken down makes learning so much easier and quicker.

And I can quite happily sit in the evening, with headphones on and a glass of wine, watching everyone from Thomas Lang to Max Roach in action - and learning so much. (I often prefer this to TV!)

And of course there's a whole roster of great young - and old - YouTube drummers who can really play. In the last week, for example, I've picked up a monster linear pattern and some great triplet exercises from a drummer I came across called Adam Tuminaro. Worth checking out.

Not forgetting this forum. To be able to ask top players like Gavin Harrison and Todd Suchermann - and of course other forum members - specific questions, like I have done, and get helpful answers is great...

And would have been utterly unthinkable in 1983.

My drumming journey (now 2.5 years on) has been entirely internet-enabled.

I discovered DW very early on in the piece, and found it a great source of information and entertainment. Thank you Larry, for great contributions to both of those!

My drum teacher was sourced with the aid of the interwebz. And although he taught within walking distance of where I work, there was no clue in the real world, only the virtual one.

My venerable 'long lug' Pearl Export kit (the Toyota Camry of the drumming world!) was bought via Ebay, which also provided the platform for my adventures in cymbal swappery.

Youtube has let me share my playing and get advice from people on the other side of the planet.

Great thread Larry!