Who's a Genius on Drums?

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plangentmusic

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You only get THREE. lol

When I say "genius" I don't mean great, I mean someone who redefined the instrument and rhythm itself.

Honestly, I'd say there's only been two -- Gene Krupa and Tony Williams. They did what nobody else did before them on the drums. There have been others who were great, original and had monstrous chops. There are guys today who play stuff neither Gene or Tony could ever do. But those guys rewrote the book in a way no one has since IMO.

So...who's your pick? Top 2 or 3 guys.
 
Zutty Singleton - he was born 11 years before Gene, 6 before Chick Webb. One of earliest known drum set players in history (although, the drum set had been invented before his birth, who actually came before Zutty isn't documented).

Gene Krupa - 'nuff said.

Papa Jo Jones - No one played the hi-hat or ride cymbal like he did before him.
 
What about Louie Bellson and his two bass drums? That was a pretty big development.
 
Gene Krupa: He really put the drums front and center for the first time. He was an innovator in so many ways. His playing set the standard for its time, he incorporated showmanship from behind the drums and became a matinee idol for it, and he basically helped invent the modern drum set with tunable toms.

Elvin Jones: Elvin defined the modern application of polyrhythms to the drum set. If you listen to any modern jazz drummer, you will probably hear more of Elvin in his playing than any other drummer. The way he broke up swing patterns and comped with all four limbs revolutionized the instrument.

Steve Gadd: Steve is the most influential drummer of the past 40 years. He was the definitive session musician who could sight read the most complicated part upside-down. He brought drum corps rudimental technique to the drum set and applied it in an extremely creative way. He was an innovator in linear drumming, expanding on the vocabulary created by guys like Mike Clark and David Garibaldi. And he incorporated authentic, Latin/Afro-Cuban rhythms (like the Mozambique) to the drum set more comprehensively than any other drummer before him. And he managed to do all this on pop songs!
 
Wow, many great names already...

Ok, different names :) I'll say Vinnie Colaiuta, Brian Blade and Billy Cobham.
 
Chick Webb
Gene Krupa
Tony Williams
Elvin Jones

I went one over......Ill pay the fine
 
Some great suggestions.

There are more - Jack Dejohnette comes to mind. Never noticed him much in the few recordings of him I'd heard but then I got a Keith Jarrett DVD with the Jazz Casual sessions. Fantastic organic flow of ideas.

It depends what you mean by "genius" - some relevant definitions:
1. an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart. Synonyms: intelligence, ingenuity, wit; brains.
3. a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140.
5. distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
Genius by the above definitions are not that rare. You could also probably include some of those very young wunderkinds you see on YouTube who play at an adult level - they're like a kid going to university in their early teens. Whether they actualise their genius in the way that the players mentioned here have done ... that's another question.
 
Some great suggestions.

There are more - Jack Dejohnette comes to mind. Never noticed him much in the few recordings of him I'd heard but then I got a Keith Jarrett DVD with the Jazz Casual sessions. Fantastic organic flow of ideas.

It depends what you mean by "genius" - some relevant definitions:
1. an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart. Synonyms: intelligence, ingenuity, wit; brains.
3. a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140.
5. distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
Genius by the above definitions are not that rare. You could also probably include some of those very young wunderkinds you see on YouTube who play at an adult level - they're like a kid going to university in their early teens. Whether they actualise their genius in the way that the players mentioned here have done ... that's another question.


Yeah, I think140 I.Q is way low to be regarded as genius.

I know the term is thrown around a lot these days but when I say genius I mean truly beyond everyone else in regard to insight, imagination, ability and scope.
 
Yeah, I think140 I.Q is way low to be regarded as genius.

I know the term is thrown around a lot these days but when I say genius I mean truly beyond everyone else in regard to insight, imagination, ability and scope.

The term is thrown around because the formal definition of genius differs from the commonly accepted meaning, which is more akin to Nietzsche's Superman.

Based on the dictionary "genius" applies to those at the top levels of ability - the top 1 - 2% which means there'd be about 70-140 million of them alive today ... as opposed to the "one in a generation" definition, which you are obviously referring to.

Personally, I think there are a lot of genius drummers who astound with their abilities - across the spectrum, not just chops. Look at the guys listed in this thread for starters.
 
You only get THREE. lol

When I say "genius" I don't mean great, I mean someone who redefined the instrument and rhythm itself.

Honestly, I'd say there's only been two -- Gene Krupa and Tony Williams. They did what nobody else did before them on the drums. There have been others who were great, original and had monstrous chops. There are guys today who play stuff neither Gene or Tony could ever do. But those guys rewrote the book in a way no one has since IMO.

So...who's your pick? Top 2 or 3 guys.

I would have to say Buddy Rich. When you factor in that he is solely responsible for influencing drummers of 3-4 generations and even posthumously he is still an influence on many drummers who have never even seen or heard him in a live setting. He raised the bar that even drummers today are still trying to emulate. Also factor in that he never practiced. He admitted that time and again. He was a man amongst boys even amongst his peers. He did things on his drums and cymbals that were not even thought of by anyone prior to him. Just look at one of his solos and if you don't sit in awe of him...you have no pulse. Much of what he played was done spontaneously. He was know as traps the boy wonder at a very young age because of his genius.
 
I would have to say Buddy Rich. When you factor in that he is solely responsible for influencing drummers of 3-4 generations and even posthumously he is still an influence on many drummers who have never even seen or heard him in a live setting. He raised the bar that even drummers today are still trying to emulate. Also factor in that he never practiced. He admitted that time and again. He was a man amongst boys even amongst his peers. He did things on his drums and cymbals that were not even thought of by anyone prior to him. Just look at one of his solos and if you don't sit in awe of him...you have no pulse. Much of what he played was done spontaneously. He was know as traps the boy wonder at a very young age because of his genius.

.

I'd be hard pressed to argue with you. (Though the name "Traps" was obviously a gimmick since his family were vaudevillians -- it was pure show biz. Then again, Buddy grew up with the mindset that you give people a "show.") The only reason I might say Buddy isn't in league with Gene is because without Gene, there's no Buddy! So much of what he did early on was really Gene's stuff -- just faster and stronger.

I'll say this though -- for all his showiness and bombastic excess, Buddy was a great ARTIST. At times, his playing was incredibly creative and musical.
 
It's tough, isn't it, because nobody is a genius without standing on the shoulders of someone. For me personally, I think I might include John Bonham in there because without him rock drumming might have sounded a lot more like Ginger Baker, i.e. jazz-inspired. He brought soul drumming to rock music, and used the bass drum in a way modern audiences would find easier to recognise.
 
Now that the concept and meaning of "genius" has been thoroughly devalued with the listing of various "chopmeisters"... Buddy Rich comes to mind first of all... who didn't invent or move their musical genres forward much, or at all; I'd limit the list to Kenny Clarke and Max Roach. Every jazz drummer since, including Roy, Philly Joe, Elvin, Tony, Jack, Vinnie, et.al., stands on their shoulders.

Ron
 
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