Endorsement Marketing Lies

...and who is buying all of these reissue kits such as Moon's Premier or Bonham's Ludwig?

I think you cross connected my point.

The turn of this thread is that endorsements don't/should not matter. I say, they have been extremely significant. Bonham clone sets have been steadily popular, and that pictures of lilly clone sells a number as well.

Tama got a boost in sales, as did Ludwig when Peart was on board. People that bought a tama were angry when Neil jumped to Ludwig, and the same goes for ludwig to DW.
 
I have no idea why Radias never "took off".....baffling.

The painful truth about that is that you have to have a set of 4, 6 or 8 crash or china cymbals for the difference to be heard. Even I didn't notice until I bought the small crash set (8, 10, 12, 14"), but then I was looking to do the solo drum thing anyway. Most drummers, on the other hand, seem to think you are overdoing it if you bring more than a hi-hat and a cowbell to the gig these days. You know....more minimalist than thou or some such thing, so the opportunity to even get that many cymbals together in one sitting never really came for most folks.

I always considered the 8 crashes to be one instrument by itself, capable of generating 8 tones. They make sense when you look at them that way. Same with all of the bells and china stacks.
 
I recall seeing him listed several times in late 1980s/early 1990s issues of Modern Drummer magazine as a Wuhan endorser in the "Endorsement News" section.

Like it was mentioned before. I find it odd that he chose to forget about the years where he used 24" bass drums in the three-part DW ad he did.

Yes, eventually, he got an Wuhan endoresment. I think I still have the poster somewhere.
But I also had the poster from his pre-Wuhan endorsement, when Zildjian clearly stated he only used Zildjian China's even though it wasn't the case.

I'm not saying Neil ever lied about what he used, I just making conversation that he didn't exactly endorse 100% stuff that the ads were enticing people to purchase; it may be neglible differences, but they existed.

But yes, the 24" Bass drum thing is weird. The DW ad implies he's played a 22" BD for most of his career, when he didn't switch to 22" until his blue Ludwig kit in 91 or so.
 
...I have no idea why Radias never "took off".....baffling.

What was odd, was about a year or two after they came out, Bozzio and Sabian had some sort of falling out. There was no mention of Bozzio in Sabian ads or on their site, and Bozzio made no mention of Sabian on his webiste, although he was clearly still using them in pictues.

Then after a few years, it all went back to normal, and now Bozzio is back to saying he plays Sabians, and Sabian is back to listing him.

But for a while, they didn't mention each other. I'm sure that hurt sales for a time.
 
What was odd, was about a year or two after they came out, Bozzio and Sabian had some sort of falling out. There was no mention of Bozzio in Sabian ads or on their site, and Bozzio made no mention of Sabian on his webiste, although he was clearly still using them in pictues.

Then after a few years, it all went back to normal, and now Bozzio is back to saying he plays Sabians, and Sabian is back to listing him.

But for a while, they didn't mention each other. I'm sure that hurt sales for a time.

By the time Bozzio and Sabian had their little tiff, the RADIAs were on the out as far as production goes, so sales were not really affected by that. What I found amusing is that Bozzio eventually returned to Sabian, which tells me that NOBODY ELSE would touch the concept of RADIA cymbals!

In the end, it made me a stronger endorser of Sabian for their willingness to stick it out through something like this, and their fortitude to go where other cymbal companies dare not go.

Although, it would have been an interesting irony for me to switch to Sabian after 15 years in Zildjian-land, only to have Zildjian start making RADIA (the whole reason I went to Sabian in the first place) and Sabian has to change the name on the pies from then on.

I might have torn my hair out!
 
I think you cross connected my point.

The turn of this thread is that endorsements don't/should not matter. I say, they have been extremely significant. Bonham clone sets have been steadily popular, and that pictures of lilly clone sells a number as well.

Tama got a boost in sales, as did Ludwig when Peart was on board. People that bought a tama were angry when Neil jumped to Ludwig, and the same goes for ludwig to DW.
I know. I was adding on to your point. I think they shouldn't matter, but truth is they do.
 
The thing is they are still connecting with the "child" inside the adult. Sure it's adults buying these kits. But they are kits of the heroes they had when they were kids. They just couldn't afford the gear the heroes were using at the moment.

They are. I have read part of Pearl endorsement contract. Like others, it's such a front. The endorsing artist must proclaim how he/she "found his/her" voice with this brand. This becomes a totally trite statement if they change brands frequently. But people still believe it.

As far as I am concerned, the sound of the DW kit Peart is using now, is in no way better than his Ludwig was.

I do feel sorry for the gullible and uninitiated. I saw some guy drop a bundle on a new Starclassic kit and cymbals, trying to get Lar's sound from the black album tour. I was thinking...well good luck without a well paid soundman and a lot of EQ.
 
I saw some guy drop a bundle on a new Starclassic kit and cymbals, trying to get Lar's sound from the black album tour. I was thinking...well good luck without a well paid soundman and a lot of EQ.

Haha...and he used a Gretsch kit on that record! LoL.

D.
 
They are. I have read part of Pearl endorsement contract. Like others, it's such a front. The endorsing artist must proclaim how he/she "found his/her" voice with this brand. This becomes a totally trite statement if they change brands frequently. But people still believe it.
Nothing like that is in any of my contracts with GMS, Paiste or Evans. Knowing them like I do I have a hard picturing they would ever have anything such as this.
 
Nothing like that is in any of my contracts with GMS, Paiste or Evans. Knowing them like I do I have a hard picturing they would ever have anything such as this.

Some companies have more class than others. I can see where pearl (at least at one time) demanded a lot from endorsees. Normally, I'd think that frequent public exposure should suffice.
 
It's a combination of many things. I like PDP drums right now because they can make what I want to build my kit. Gretsch can do the same, but in the scheme of things I trust PDP, and Gretsch loses out (put six lugs on an 8" tom and we'll talk). Sometimes it comes down to the most esoteric of things.

Of course, I am doing something most drummers have NO use for, so maybe my bias is worth double points right now. I am such a nerd where drums are concerned.
 
Its a business & unfortunately like most things these days, it all comes down to a bottom line. Honesty means very little.
 
I just saw an add with Cindy Blackman for Istanbul cymbals.
Just when her Zildjian K Dark Medium Ride is super popular.
Has Zildjian run off another artist?
 
Its a business & unfortunately like most things these days, it all comes down to a bottom line. Honesty means very little.

On the contrary, it's those who are honest that stand out and are highly valued by the companies. Those drummers are the real winners.

Bermuda
 
Hi guys, first time on the forum, I,ve been reading with interest. Re: endorsement marketing lies; having never considered it as important or at all I agree with what drumtechdad said. It's really up to the individual buying the equipment to be informed about the sound they want. Having admired lots of drummers for many years, never felt moved to purchase their brand. MAYBE IT WAS MONEY or considerate taste, what struck me as being more important than working and saving to have what my hero,or idol has sitting in a picture,was the sound and feel needed to improve my own ability whatever that may be. I play and practice on electronic drums Roland td 9kx now for neighbourly relation reasons. I do get the point it's a matter of trust, with most business ops focused only on trusting what will work to sell, sell sell. Drummers learn very quickly or at least should, there are a lot of brands, logos, endorsements etc, to spend money on out there, the only way is to visualize the sound you need and go and find it yourself.

Henno
 
Drummers learn very quickly or at least should, there are a lot of brands, logos, endorsements etc, to spend money on out there, the only way is to visualize the sound you need and go and find it yourself.

An artist's endorsement is really meant to attract attention to the brand, not to create instant sales based on the name alone (although it certainly happens.) I never purchased anything solely because another drummer endorsed it, no matter how much I respect or believe they are honest about their gear. But I have been moved to explore some brands & products that I might not have been aware of, to include in my purchasing decisions.

Nobody ever bought a Trick pedal or Sabian cymbal or Ludwig kit outright because I said they're great, but I know several drummers who explored those brands because they know that I've already done my homework and made careful decisions as to what I use.

Sadly, we know that many celebrity drummers do not possess much integrity when it comes to the gear they endorse, and what they actually use. I am very cautious to make sure I'm not lumped in with them, and I can assure you that the companies I endorse appreciate my principles, and that I really use the gear that I say I do.

Bermuda
 
I can't remember where it was but there was a driver's seat pic of Gadd using DW pedals, and Nathan Followill of Kings of Leon plays DWs and when asked has mentioned them. But hasn't mentioned the Jarrah Block Brady snare he uses.

Tom
 
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