New band - very loud drummer - question

tothemax

Junior Member
I'm putting together a community band - basically all volunteers to support community events. Most of us have been in bands before, my first was in the 70's and I've worked as professional roadie (the Knack with Bruce Gary). So I'm not new to band sounds.

All of us have jobs and family obligations so this is our chance to keep playing without trying hold down a regular band gig. Our drummer is a great guy and has a good attitude, shows up every week to practices but I'm at loss at a way to get him lighten up on the volume. He's been playing about 6 years and is about 30, so he's not a kid - I'm not sure if he's ever been in a band before.

We practice in a large boomy room, our community center (40'x80' cement floors, hard walls, and storefront glass). This is volunteer gig so I don't want to be a jerk because it supposed to be fun. Our first gig is next week and I'm afraid we're going to blast the audience out. We have a 600w PA (300w main, 300w monitors) and the vocals are constantly lost in the music.

We play classic rock, R&B, and beach music (Skynard, Van Morrison, Buffett) - he does get the drum volume down on the quieter songs Margaritaville, Brown eyed Girl, but as soon as a R&R number kicks in we're back to 11. I had a drum machine one week when he was late and practice went so much smoother, the rhythm was monotonous but we could hear each other.

I'm sure this has come up before, he's a pretty decent drummer and I'd like to find a civil way to make this work... Our audience is a mix of all ages so playing at Kiss levels isn't going to cut it. I'm a guitar and bass player, so I thought I'd check with drummers to get some ideas. Help....
 
I take it you've actually made him aware there is a problem with his volume? You didn't actually say so, is all. So thought I'd better ask.

What was his reaction when you brought it up?
 
Sorry I forgot to mention that, yes it's been brought up a number of times and he actually bought a pair of lighter sticks with plastic tips. Our singer suggested Hot Rods, even though these aren't Hot rods, they are better. I think part of the problem is that he uses a double kick pedal, the bass drum is particularly loud (he has 1 pillow inside) very boomy. With the double pedal going it's a bit overwhelming. We have a second drummer who is playing congas and percussion (due to nerve issue in his leg), he took over the kit one night and kept the volume dead on - the regular drummer mentioned how well he played but then next week we were back to the same again. It's almost a short attention span thing and doesn't seem to be intentional. I even joked about getting him a shock collar and giving everyone a remote... ;)

This is my first go at band leader, what a lot of work... luckily everyone is easy to work with - the volume thing is the only issue. Once the drum volume goes up then everything else creeps and the music becomes mush.
 
Lighter sticks are not going to fix things. Recommendations- Smaller drums, use thicker heads like 2 ply Emperor, G2 or Response 2 models, tune them a bit "darker" (lower)... If you gotta go with the drum condom (plexiglas) then make sure he can hear the rest of the band.

Ironically enough it's when the drummer CAN'T hear the band that sometimes they tend to play louder. Why? Someone's gotta drive the beat...
 
Sounds like he wants to keep hitting hard.

Wood snare, tuned lower, lighter sticks, learn to not rimshot on the backbeat, more muffling in the kick, and a reminder when things get too loud.

If you can demonstrate the excess volume for him somehow..
 
Have the other guy play loud as hell while the loud guy listens- he should be able to see the error of his ways. I was hard hitter too and it went away with some band experience. Get him some hot rods and he will be 20% quieter but will lose some feel.
 
Firstly ask him to lay off, tone down. If done that, and no avail maybe record a practice, play it back to him. Volume issue will be made self-evident.

I like to record the occasional practice just to show members where our 'levels ' are at, especially lead guitarists. Some members have no idea.
 
...make sure he can hear the rest of the band.

Ironically enough it's when the drummer CAN'T hear the band that sometimes they tend to play louder. Why? Someone's gotta drive the beat...

This. What's his monitor situation? Is he miked at all?
 
I'd recommend recording the practice...

We had the same problem in my old band with the guitarist constantly trying to raise the volume up. First he would turn his volume up because he couldn't hear the guitar, then he would try to make us play louder because we were drowning him out.

We all said it was too loud and asked him to keep it down for rehearsals. One time (when we were set up as if we were on a stage for practice) the bass player kept sneaking over to his amp when the guitar player wasn't looking and turning his volume down a notch.

After we recorded one of our practice sessions and he could see that his volume was too high he backed off for a while, it crept back up after a while so we had to remind him about the recording but as long as we kept on top of it he was good in the rehearsals.

'tothemax' is an ironic username if you are having volume issues though.
 
Someone should tell him to add more muffling to the bass drum and ditch the double pedal. You mentioned classic rock bands in your OP and none of those relied on double pedal. I mean, which Jimmy Buffet or Van Morrission song uses double kicks? It's not "Brown-eyed girl" is it?

That being said, good luck getting him to drop it.
 
I will record practice so that I get a good feel for what the actual room sound is. To make sure that there are not other issues. I just can't remember playing and not being able to hear the other guitar player at all on the other side of the stage unless I walked over there. But again a recording is probably the best method. I'm older and my ears aren't what they used to be.

The rhythm machine test was what really clued me in... when "magically" I could here the guitar on the other side of the room and the vocals cut through.

For monitors we have 2 wedges in front of us on boxes a foot or so off the floor (each about 8' ft. from the drum set on either side). We do mic the kick. Our PA has 8 channels which we use for vocals, harp, and the kick. Guitars and bass are all amped. We did put a monitor next to the drum set one night and it seemed to make things louder.

FYI: tothemax is the name of our boat, named after our dog "Max" who lived to 18 and lived many years aboard with us. But you're right...
 
It simply sounds to me like he is not the right drummer for this gig.
 
Keep telling him to change it until he does. If he doesn't, then get rid of him. Never let 'trying to stay friends with people' get in the way of getting the job done. It doesn't mean you shouldn't be polite, but if you make a polite suggestion and someone is affronted then everyone knows where they stand.
 
Going to try the tape first... maybe even one take with the drum machine for sound comparison. This is volunteer gig and it's not like folks are lining up to play, so it's in our own best interest to try and make it work. I'm hoping a little patience might help make for a better drummer overall.

Thanks for the input...
 
have everyone else turn way down, to the point where he can't hear you guys at all. see what happens.

That is SOP :)


He needs to learn to ease up. You can't hear from behind the kit how damn loud the drums are. It took me forever to learn this. In the old days, I always thought the guitars were too loud. They were just trying to keep up with the drums.
 
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Let me preface my reply by stating that I am both a working drummer and a working sound tech. So I can hopefully understand both points of view here.

Your drummer is playing too loud for the venue and you want him to play quieter. The idea to tape the rehearsal is a good idea. In addition to that you should try standing right behind the drummer while you are playing to get an idea of what he is hearing. As New Trick said, he may not be able to hear his drums very well and is only hitting harder because he thinks he needs to keep up with the rest of the band. I've done gigs where I could barely hear the sound of my drums because of the room acoustics. Over the years I have learned to not play any harder in those situations. But it's not easy to do that for any drummer. I worked as the sound tech with a drummer that used to have to change his shirt every break because it was soaked with sweat from him playing so hard. I finally sat him down and asked him why he hit so hard. His answer - so everyone can hear me over the rest of the band. I got him to switch to lighter sticks and to not hit so hard regardless of the room and things got better. It didn't happen overnight, but it did get better. You need to talk to your drummer and convince him what he needs to do to make thing work for the whole band, not just for him. You are trying to make the whole band sound better and sometimes individuals in the band need to make changes to accomplish that. Not an easy task. As a tech I have had to tell bands to turn down because the person in charge (owner, manager, person that hired the band) complains about the volume. I have to say that most bands are pretty good about it. But once in awhile you get a band (or musician) that knows better and tells you to f*%# off.

I don't envy you in your job and I wish you good luck in talking to your drummer. I hope he is a reasonable type and understands what needs to be done for the good of the entire band.
 
A big factor is the venue. I had an issue with another drummer in our ensemble being too loud especially crashing on the 18 in crash ride, while I was standing right next to him, however when we performed on stage in a large auditorium all the high frequencies attenuated, it sounded great no problem, which makes me think it is just the size of the practice space we have, I might start wearing ear plugs to practice, since I have to stand right next to the crash. If anyone asks, I will say it is so I can hear what it sounds like at the back of the auditorium.
 
im guessing he uses a speed cobra double pedal? i use that, get him to change to a dixon double pedal, pretty cheap and has a lot less power, I've just changed from the dixon double pedal to speed cobra and i love the speed cobra but neighbours are just started to complain because of it.
 
im guessing he uses a speed cobra double pedal? i use that, get him to change to a dixon double pedal, pretty cheap and has a lot less power, I've just changed from the dixon double pedal to speed cobra and i love the speed cobra but neighbours are just started to complain because of it.

I think you might be reading rather more into this than is possible from the available evidence...
 
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