Dents along edge of new Paiste Dark Energy hi hats... URGH

I have had a pair of the DE 14" hats for about 5 years and not a dent on them and I bought them used. I have played hard and soft. They don't strike me as particularly thin cymbals. Sounds like they screwed up- too thin on the edge or some other bad production technique.
 
SgtThump, I think you should sell your Club Customs and those hi hats to me, and then start with a clean slate. But hey, that's just my personal opinion.
 
Hazelwood7 said:
Looks like hammer marks to me
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I'm trying to find a large enough rock to climb under after making this thread. :)

I think you're right. I don't think it's dings from me playing. I more-or-less purposely tried to dent them after starting this thread and they're not budging at all. They must've been there before.

This is great news for me, of course. But also a little embarrassing. ha
 
Now, if they are hammer marks, I'd be surprised that Paiste's manufacturing allows for that... I had one outlying hammer mark on the edge of a Dream cymbal and there was a little crack there within weeks. Didn't affect the sound of it, and it didn't spread (because that little dimple was a little thinner than the rest of the cymbal) but it was annoying. Maybe you'll get a new one out of it.
 
Hammered, then lathed, then edged, then QC'd/inspected. What's the probability of PAISTE messing up and it getting by all those ppl?

Watch the video I linked in post #19


My guess is they'll replace it bc it 'looks like' hammer marks, and they're still under warranty, not bc they are hammer marks.

They want the customer happy, they want the customer to (want to) buy more PAISTE cymbals.

You can dent HH cymbals, you'd really have to wail on them tho.


The moral of the story is, when you buy something new the fist order of business is inspect the crap out of it. Be critical, then (maybe) you can allow yourself to be overtaken with awe.
 
Les Ismore said:
Hammered, then lathed, then edged, then QC'd/inspected. What's the probability of PAISTE messing up and it getting by all those ppl?

Watch the video I linked in post #19


My guess is they'll replace it bc it 'looks like' hammer marks, and they're still under warranty, not bc they are hammer marks.

They want the customer happy, they want the customer to (want to) buy more PAISTE cymbals.

You can dent HH cymbals, you'd really have to wail on them tho.


The moral of the story is, when you buy something new the fist order of business is inspect the crap out of it. Be critical, then (maybe) you can allow yourself to be overtaken with awe.
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I watched the video and other Paiste videos. I get what you're saying for sure. They're known for their tight quality control. Because of that, if these are hammer marks, I assume they're part of the manufacturing process and supposed to be there on this particular model or specimen... ?
 
The answer is simple; get a pair of vintage A New Beats, as they will be nice and thin like you seem to favor, but they will be much stronger. My pair is from around 1971-73, and I there is not even one dent in them after over 40 years of use by its various owners.
 
SgtThump said:
I'm trying to find a large enough rock to climb under after making this thread. :)

I think you're right. I don't think it's dings from me playing. I more-or-less purposely tried to dent them after starting this thread and they're not budging at all. They must've been there before.

This is great news for me, of course. But also a little embarrassing. ha
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Hey Thump -

Don't be embarrassed. We all miss little details on brand new purchases. Sometimes, the newness has to wear off before we discover a detail we don't like.

I have seen similar dings on Zildjian's A. Series many times in the past 10 years. Just a couple of weeks ago, I looked at a new 22" Medium Ride at a Sam Ash store, and it has dings in the edge that look like hammer marks. My only problem with that is new A. Zildjian cymbals should not have a rippled edge unless it is the bottom of a Mastersound Hi-Hat.

Let us know what the Paiste rep says.
 
If they are hammer marks, why don't they span the entire circumference? I'm a bit confused, I guess.
 
ZildjianLover said:
The answer is simple; get a pair of vintage A New Beats, as they will be nice and thin like you seem to favor, but they will be much stronger. My pair is from around 1971-73, and I there is not even one dent in them after over 40 years of use by its various owners.
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I had a nice very light pair of 15" Zildjian hats from the 60s or 70s that was awesome. No dents either, like you report. But they're not really the same thing, ya know? The Paiste Dark Energy hats and vintage Zildjian A's don't have much in common.
 
KirbyM said:
Hey Thump -

Don't be embarrassed. We all miss little details on brand new purchases. Sometimes, the newness has to wear off before we discover a detail we don't like.

I have seen similar dings on Zildjian's A. Series many times in the past 10 years. Just a couple of weeks ago, I looked at a new 22" Medium Ride at a Sam Ash store, and it has dings in the edge that look like hammer marks. My only problem with that is new A. Zildjian cymbals should not have a rippled edge unless it is the bottom of a Mastersound Hi-Hat.

Let us know what the Paiste rep says.
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I still think I looked them over, but it just doesn't make sense that they weren't there before and are now WHEN I can't dent them even on purpose. HA

I consider myself a very logical person and if I can't dent them now, I didn't dent them in the first place. Even though I thought I inspected each cymbal thoroughly, I must not have. The only logical explanation is that they came that way and I missed it.

Now, these came straight from the back room fresh out of a bag from Paiste. Not sealed or anything, but I'm sure they were brand spanking new and not touched previously.

This means that either this particular model comes with hammer marks that vary, including some that will go out to the edge like mine OR it go through Paiste QC. Those guys are good, right?

So I dunno. The whole thing makes my head spin. The only thing I know for sure is that I've played them hard several times since starting this thread and they don't look any different. They also sound absolutely killer as they did the day I bought them, so yeah...
 
Cymbal crisis averted.

Play the crap out them and if nothing changes before the warranty runs out you will still have an great sounding pair of cymbals.
 
I don't think there's too much to worry about.

I guess the only concern would be that if they weren't supposed to be hammered on the edge,
the blows might have weakened, or thinned the metal in those areas just a bit.
Maybe enough that a really hard hit could cause a crack to begin.
Just how thin are those cymbals anyways?
 
gdmoore28 said:
I worked at a music store for years starting in the 1980s and we carried Zildjian, Sabian, and Paiste cymbals. In all the time I was there, I remember NEVER having replaced a single Zildjian or Sabian cymbal for any reason. At the same time, we replaced dozens of Paiste cymbals from every price range. A dozen cymbals over many years is not exactly a huge problem for a music store, but can you imagine that number multiplied over thousands and thousands of stores?

I'm not dissing Paiste. I would very much like to outfit a drumset with Paiste cymbals. But the reliability problem with Paiste exists, and has been known for a very long time.

GeeDeeEmm
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Yours is an interesting point reinforced by William F. Ludwig, II in his autobiography "The Making of a Drum Company." As Paiste's first distributor in the USA in the 1960's, Ludwig "took a bath" in returns of cracked Paiste cymbals, which, at the time, Paiste would not make good on, according to Ludwig. Thankfully, we have a warranty to fall back on. This is something you have to come to accept with Paiste as part of their design/manufacturing philosophy, I've felt over the years.
 
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SgtThump said:
I watched the video and other Paiste videos. I get what you're saying for sure. They're known for their tight quality control. Because of that, if these are hammer marks, I assume they're part of the manufacturing process and supposed to be there on this particular model or specimen... ?
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They'll replace it Im sure, they want you happy, if all it takes for you to be happy is them to say those are hammer marks, then go for that.


Can't imagine how hard you'd have to hit them to dent it. I play a super thin 522 gram top HH with heavy sticks a lot and don't dent it.

The question (to ask them/yourself) would be, are hammer marks on the edge more susceptible to crackage?
 

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I just want to ensure my point comes across correctly...

I think Paiste cymbals are the best sounding cymbals I've ever tried. I'm a big fan and have owned a nice set of 2002s (still do) and Giant Beats. I've gone on a big gear whore expedition the last several years, so I've owned lots of nice stuff from Zildjian and Sabian as well. Nothing bad to say about them either, but Paiste are where it's at for me.

I started this thread thinking I dented them, but that's pretty obviously wrong to me now. I'm also not saying the edges of these hats shouldn't have these "dings" or hammer marks. I have no clue!

The distributor hasn't replied. Maybe I sent to the wrong email. I'll try again. MDS pretty much believes these are hammer marks, but they'll do whatever to make it right. What is making it right? Beats me? I have to figure that out I guess. LOL
 
funny , im new
i have a 14" cr-p crash B8 wuhan cymbal ( got for sound learning and target practice i guess )
has a little ding on the edge !
drives me crazy, i see it every time i look up! doesnt change the sound,
prob noboday other than a drummer would ever notice!
i wonder how long till i find a replacement , just for the ding ? lol
is it like torture for a drummer?
 
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