Never bend below the wrist? (Arthritis/carpal)

T

Teslaa

Member
'Your hands should never bend below your wrist while you're playing unless you want to speed up the symptoms of arthritis and carpel tunnel.'

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/dumming-for-drummies

Recently started to work on gordy knudtson technique (push pull), of which bending the hand below the wrist is an integral part. I've noticed some discomfort in the wrists from it, actually. But I had never heard of anyone advising against this, not on here or anywhere.
Thoughts?
 
I agree 100%. You want your wrist straight so the shock that comes from the head and travels through the stick and into your hands to get absorbed into your forearms. If your wrist is bent, the shock stops there, and is absorbed by the wrist. This is how we damage our wrist, and can lead to CTS. People who type all day and don't keep their wrists straight are prone to CTS. Three guesses why, and the first two don't count!

Give this a try. Bend your wrist all the way then wiggle your fingers. You can feel the tension in your wrist, and your fingers become harder to straighten. Keep those wrists straight.
 
Downward bend is an integral aspect of the Moeller stroke, and a bit of downward arching is useful for rebound control when playing downstrokes. For overall playing, though, keep your wrists more or less straight when the sticks hit the drums. Always remember, if it hurts, you're doing something wrong.
 
I don't think the problem is that you with certajn techniques end up going below the wrist. Those techniques that demand it put no strain anywhere.

However, when doing a regular type wrist stroke obviously you don't go beyond flat wrist. Why would you want to? You hit the drum/let the stick go at or slightly before falt. That's like a guitar player bending the wrist because the instrument is too low. Not a good idea.
 
I appreciate the concern for my wrists :)

But the question is another of course. Seeing as it is an integral part of this particular technique, the problem cannot logically lie in the bending below the wrist. Just look at Mr. Knudtson in the video I linked. His hands are way below his wrists.

Have to be a bit lucky with your wrists I suppose. Some will take more shock than others.
 
When I play I bent my wrists, elbows, shoulders, waist and just about everything else I can. I have already had two rotator cuff surgeries and Im sure carpal tunnel syndrome is coming next and I wouldn't trade it for the world. I play rock n' roll. I get into it. I bang my head while I play. I do ridiculous things with my sticks. I raise my arms up way too high before a big crash. I've hit hit the rim of my snare hard enough to break a finger. Its all in the name of the show. So I will tell you my motto. If it doesnt hurt, your not playing hard enough! I'm sure Morgan Rose would agree.
 
This THREAD is giving me carpal tunnel! OMG "Bends below the wrist"... WTF is he talking about?

Just like driving a car, I think that anyone who considers themselves a drummer must go through that development period and get their hands "done right" and by that I mean "go see a professional and have them analyze your technique".

And even then, that can be completely subjective because it's human nature to think that "I've been doing it this way for 10 years and never had a problem"...

Well I've been doing it for 40+ and have not had a drumming-related problem. But I can tell you about computer-related problems because that in of itself will sideline you, should you have improper posture at your work area.

If it's that much of a mystery to you, go see a local professional and get your hands together.
 
This sounds really dumb to me. Of course we're going to bend our freaking wrists for a wrist stroke. Certain tempos and sounds/rhythms demand it.

I love the way Bill Bachman has been essentially preaching against preaching like this. Statements like "never do that" are typically ill-founded opinion. There is no one-technique that's superior to others for every application. Playing everything with your fingers and neglecting the wrist based strokes is going to limit you.
 
here is the truth of it all

bend whatever the hell you want as long as it doesn't hurt and it sounds good

you could record an album holding the sticks in your arm pits .... if the record sounds good how the hell would I know ?

doesn't matter

be natural, be comfortable

if that means you pop & lock while you play then so be it
 
WhoIsTony? said:
if that means you pop & lock while you play then so be it
Click to expand...

I think you're going to need to record a demonstration of this. This is the most excellent idea I've read all day.
 
I would like to clarify that when I said keep your wrist straight, I meant at the point of impact. Obviously we have to bend our wrist, but I have seen too many people with contorted wrists at the point of impact that have wrist problems, but insist their technique is not the problem. I was taught on day one of getting lessons about keeping the wrist straight, and have never had any issues what so ever. I play loud, hard, and fast, and enjoy punishing my snare.

I too would like to see Tony do a pop and lock drum video. That sounds like it would be fun to watch.
 
It would however mean French grip is inherently bad for the wrists, unless played on very tilted surfaces or with elbow and shoulders compensating for the angle.
American grip less so, and German could be most easily played (safely) on flat or near flat surfaces.

I had never considered this, my drum teacher confirmed it today though. Got some work to do :)
 
Teslaa said:
It would however mean French grip is inherently bad for the wrists, unless played on very tilted surfaces or with elbow and shoulders compensating for the angle.
American grip less so, and German could be most easily played (safely) on flat or near flat surfaces.

I had never considered this, my drum teacher confirmed it today though. Got some work to do :)
Click to expand...

A few too many "absolutes" that are definitely bordering on misinformation encroaching into this thread, I reckon.

French grip when done correctly, is not inherently bad for you at all. Executed properly, there is slight bend in the wrist that causes a natural rotation of the radius and ulna bones in the forearm rather than a straining of the tendons that run along side the wrist. It is a similar type of rotation that is found when using traditional grip, just in the opposite direction. For examples, watch how a tympanist holds the mallets and strikes the drum head when using French grip.........nothing inherently bad about that at all. It is a tried, tested and viable technique.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
A few too many "absolutes" that are definitely bordering on misinformation encroaching into this thread, I reckon.

French grip when done correctly, is not inherently bad for you at all. Executed properly, there is slight bend in the wrist that causes a natural rotation of the radius and ulna bones in the forearm rather than a straining of the tendons that run along side the wrist. It is a similar type of rotation that is found when using traditional grip, just in the opposite direction. For examples, watch how a tympanist holds the mallets and strikes the drum head when using French grip.........nothing inherently bad about that at all. It is a tried, tested and viable technique.
Click to expand...

Yes you're right I suppose in that the technique works and if one has no problems then it is fine. But at the point of impact is still contortion, meaning the shock is absorbed by the tendons of the wrist only (as opposed to forearm etc) which many appear to agree is not a good idea. That's what is talked about here I think. Tympani players too have their wrists contorted on impact when playing French grip, that's just what the grip entails.

I suppose 'inherent' is not the right term, but by the logic of keeping the wrist straight on impact, it is safe to say French is most risky. Some people who have bad computer posture never have problems, but it is still bad posture.
 
I'm getting some carpal tunnel in my right hand, I thought it was from drums BUT.....

It's from clicking a mouse a lot. Damn computers. Actually, playing relaxed drum exercises--I ALWAYS try to play my exercises and grooves with light, flowing hands and no tension/squeezing--seems to be good therapy for my carpal.
 
I'm trying to work out how you would even go about bending below the wrist.

My arm has one bendy bit where it meets my body, another bendy bit about halfway down and another bendy bit which I call the wrist.

When nodding your head to keep time to the music, you must never bend above the neck. Bad things will happen!
 
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