Let's talk about scams.

Sparkboss

Senior Member
If you've got 13 minutes, please watch this video. Then please leave your comments on the topic.

Personally I think some legal action should be taken. Judge Judy, do some justice!

http://youtu.be/pF4doyqeKKQ
 
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Re: Lets talk about scams.

Judge Judy nothing....Using the US mail to defraud someone is a felony and a federal crime.

If you were ripped off,contact the inspector general for the US postal service and the United States attorneys office.

I don't know the complete facts of the case,as we've only heard one side of the story,and not Jeffs side.I would hope there's an explaination.

I actually feel bad for both sides here,but caveat emptor.That's a lot of cash for a single snare drum.

Steve B
 
Re: Lets talk about scams.

Judge Judy nothing....Using the US mail to defraud someone is a felony and a federal crime.

If you were ripped off,contact the inspector general for the US postal service and the United States attorneys office.

I don't know the complete facts of the case,as we've only heard one side of the story,and not Jeffs side.I would hope there's an explaination.

I actually feel bad for both sides here,but caveat emptor.That's a lot of cash for a single snare drum.

Steve B

Wow, I thought only tampering and theft was a felony.

Hopefully the word gets out and the man can get his drum at least
 
Assuming this story is true and accurate, I would have taken action long before 4 years. And if this is true the only word I can equate with Jeff is scum. Again, depending on the accuracy of this story.
 
You are a much more patient man than I am, sir.
 
There has to be more to it than what he had to say about it. Jeff Ocheltree is an established brand name in the drum equipment business. I can't see him willfully throwing that away for $2500.
 
There has to be more to it than what he had to say about it. Jeff Ocheltree is an established brand name in the drum equipment business. I can't see him willfully throwing that away for $2500.

Then to him it's ONLY 2500. Why hasn't he delivered?
 
Very disheartening.

After a year or so I might start thinking of him as a scam artist instead of a friend and probably take legal action.
 
Very disheartening.

After a year or so I might start thinking of him as a scam artist instead of a friend and probably take legal action.

Same here.... Hopefully the word gets out, and something gets done about this
 
There has to be more to it than what he had to say about it. Jeff Ocheltree is an established brand name in the drum equipment business. I can't see him willfully throwing that away for $2500.

Dear JO apologist:

I can. Eric isn't the only drummer who has been left holding the bag on an order. I have one of my most solid dealers in the US who ordered and paid for TWO drums from Ocheltree and has not received them. Is there more to that story? JO being an "established name" is what I see as part of the problem - for those who are fronting cash for product and for artists whose names are being invoked by JO. JO has made a career out of invoking John Bonham's name and in my opinion (and that of Jason Bonham) embellishing his work and relationship with him.

Obviously JO is aware of this video and of what is being said. When you find a response from JO to this video that provides any sort of explanation, excuse or whatever, feel free to share it - I'd love to hear it...although I doubt Eric is interested in another sob story.
 
4 Years!? That is one talented scam artist.

I have encountered only a few real criminals/scam artists and each time it seems to be the last person I would have expected.

It is those who think they are a fine judge of character that are prime marks for scam artists.

I am surprised to hear it is customary to front the full price for a custom drum- rare in any other business I think. Part up front and part on delivery or use of an escrow account seems more reasonable.
 
Ron,while your word does carry some weight,till "all the ducks are in a row" I for one will reserve judgement in this case.

Some more facts and testimony need to be heard.This in NO way is me saying that I don't believe you, but in the real world,it's not about what you can say,it's about what you can PROVE.

So far I haven't seen either a preponderance of evidence nor beyond a reasonable doubt standard of proof which is necessary to prove a case in a criminal or civil court of law.

As a former NYPD detective,if I tried to make an arrest on this evidence alone(which I would NEVER do) I would find myself demoted and back in uniform the next day.....if I was lucky.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court,face their accuser and dispute the evidence and facts of a case.The burden of proof here is also on the prosecution or plantiff who must prove their case.

A good reputation is something which is hard to build,but so easy to destroy and near impossible that once destroyed,even if its vindicated ,will still never be what it once was .

Sorry to get a little wordy here,but before every single arrest I've ever made,I made sure I had as many many provable facts as possible.That's because an arrest can ruin not only a reputation,but a persons and their families life.

There's alway collateral damage.

Steve B
 
Ron,while your word does carry some weight,till "all the ducks are in a row" I for one will reserve judgement in this case.

Some more facts and testimony need to be heard.This in NO way is me saying that I don't believe you, but in the real world,it's not about what you can say,it's about what you can PROVE.

So far I haven't seen either a preponderance of evidence nor beyond a reasonable doubt standard of proof which is necessary to prove a case in a criminal or civil court of law.

As a former NYPD detective,if I tried to make an arrest on this evidence alone(which I would NEVER do) I would find myself demoted and back in uniform the next day.....if I was lucky.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court,face their accuser and dispute the evidence and facts of a case.The burden of proof here is also on the prosecution or plantiff who must prove their case.

A good reputation is something which is hard to build,but so easy to destroy and near impossible that once destroyed,even if its vindicated ,will still never be what it once was .

Sorry to get a little wordy here,but before every single arrest I've ever made,I made sure I had as many many provable facts as possible.That's because an arrest can ruin not only a reputation,but a persons and their families life.

There's alway collateral damage.

Steve B

And then there were three...


I understand this, however...it is not up to me to prove anything. I had nothing to do with the production of or publication of the video. I suspect that Eric could easily produce enough evidence to support his claim. I know of one dealer in the US who certainly can, but again - how each of these deal with their situation is up to them. Eric - who I have now known for 3 days - went public with his.

It takes a lot of time, $ and energy to take something like this through the courts and even at $2500, it might not be worth it to some.

What I do know is that Eric put HIS own reputation on the line. Recently I saw someone on ebay offering this very drum - but they were just taking deposits for drums they didn't actually have. I'm glad Eric put this out. He never said "Don't buy an Ocheltree". He said buy it if its in front of you.

What we don't know is the intent. I don't agree with some of the terminology used in this thread, and I just can't bring myself to think JO would have bad intentions. I think it is likely circumstances - but it doesn't change how anyone feels about not getting their drums.

So we have a guy who runs a drummer web site, we have a very solid dealer in the US - all of whom never got their drums.

What about this chap - a good friend of mine who recently posted this on drumsmith.com

"i'm VERY reluctantly posting this ... we ALL have problems these days - it's tough out there for everyone .. we're all doing our best to earn a living & no matter how anyone seems to be doing [" above or below you "] on the 'food chain ', we also do have a responsiblity to people we work with & do deals with ...
i gave my friend jeff ocheltree well over a $1000 to make me a drum over TWO years ago ... i didn't get the drum - there was always problems ... i asked for my money back over a year ago ... i've got $300 of it so far ... the rest is always " on-it's way " ...
just proceed with caution if any of you are planning to order one. dave mattacks"

Yes. THE Dave Mattacks.

















I haven't seen any response from Jeff on any of this.
 
What about this chap - a good friend of mine who recently posted this on drumsmith.com

"i'm VERY reluctantly posting this ... we ALL have problems these days - it's tough out there for everyone .. we're all doing our best to earn a living & no matter how anyone seems to be doing [" above or below you "] on the 'food chain ', we also do have a responsiblity to people we work with & do deals with ...
i gave my friend jeff ocheltree well over a $1000 to make me a drum over TWO years ago ... i didn't get the drum - there was always problems ... i asked for my money back over a year ago ... i've got $300 of it so far ... the rest is always " on-it's way " ...
just proceed with caution if any of you are planning to order one. dave mattacks"

Yes. THE Dave Mattacks.

Wow. It's at the point where Jeff will need to answer these allegations or else he will be convicted in the court of public opinion.

A guy that runs a drum web site, a dealer and a top player are all saying the same thing about him. Unless they are all in cahoots, it sure looks like Jeff has a serious issue going on.
 
The court of the public is already determining the outcome of this case.mits happening as we speak heh
 
Some more facts and testimony need to be heard... Steve B

Well said. But the truth is that there will never be a criminal investigation for $2,500. Even if you could find someone to investigate, the interstate issues and other legal issues would make it a nightmare. Civil litigation would also be a waste because of the time and money involved and the jurisdictional issues.

Unfotunately, the only way to get relief may be to just get the word out and protect future consumers.

Even a few bad comments can be washed away by a sea of good comments- trial by public opinion.
 
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