DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE

Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

keep your heels up that will help your speed and alls you can really do is practice
 
double bass question

Does anyone else have the problem of being able to reach one speed one day and not being able to reach it again the next day? I've been practicing a lot with a metronome and on average I can only do sixteenth notes at 138 bpm, but one day I got to 160. Now I can't get back to even 152. Does anyone else have this problem?
 
Re: double bass question

snowdog2112 said:
Does anyone else have the problem of being able to reach one speed one day and not being able to reach it again the next day? I've been practicing a lot with a metronome and on average I can only do sixteenth notes at 138 bpm, but one day I got to 160. Now I can't get back to even 152. Does anyone else have this problem?

I think to avoid a million threads about "double-bass issues", there is an official thread about it "stickied" to the top of the forum. Feel free to post there.

Thanks!
 
Re: double bass question

It might just be an issue of you being more warmed up some days than on others.
 
Re: double bass question

Cephalic said:
It might just be an issue of you being more warmed up some days than on others.

It's also a matter of being relaxed. My max is at 165bpm now playing 16ths but i don't reach this every time i want to. it mostly comes to me after warming up for about 15 minutes like cephalic said. And also, i prepare my feet seperatly, i play plain 8ths on the left foor first at 165bpm, than the left foot. After that i merge the 2 motions and get the speed.
 
Re: Double Bass Chops

C_H said:
well im strange i lean to one side when doing a blast beat i find i get more speed that way, well when i do i can do blasts of up to 280 bpm well.... according to my reader thats the speed

280bpm? I don't think so!

Unless you mean 280bpm quarter-notes. Blast beats are usually considered as 8th-notes. So if you're playing eighth-notes, that means you can do up to 140bpm, rather than 280bpm.

I don't think that even most death-metal drummers can go up to or past 280BPM in 8th-note blast beats!
 
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Re: Double Bass Chops

Speedy said:
Hey MFB isnt that something danny carey does to?

Yeah Carey does that and so does Thomas Lang. I went to a Gregg Bissonette clinic and he was talking about Lang cause he lives like next door to him, but said that the guy practices his rudiments with his feet for like 8 hours (joking of course) but wouldn't doubt it.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

tambian89 said:
To everyone: I am playing 16th notes with both feet. So, I am playing 260 16th notes per minute. I play 8th notes with each individual foot (which does go fast anyway). I'm so sorry! I didn't even realize until you guys posted giving me these crazy numbers like 1100 bpm and stuff. I can go 260, but I mixed up 16th notes and 8th notes. I timed it yesterday and it is 260 bpm, 8th notes with each foot. I got the aid of the music teacher at my school to have me go with the metronome and only one foot ( the drum set is single bass and no double pedal) and I was keeping time perfectly, but in 8th notes! I was kinda eager to just get the exercise up and didn't really read over this first part.
Sorry!
- Marc

8th-notes at 260BPM? So that would be 130BPM 16th-notes, right?
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Hello everybody!
I have a problem sometimes with my double bass playing. I play every day couple of times. Now, what I experienced was that sometimes I really can't play some slow tempo. It's like I lose my balance. I get frustrated because of my neighbours. I'd surely play the whole day and practice but neighbours...
And the next day I wake up, go to play drums and I play better, next day better and next day I play like it never happened to me.
I don't really know why sometimes I really suck at playing double bass. Usually I can play Scott Travis', Bobby Jarzombek's, Dave Lombardo's and many others' parts. I hate the days when I can't play like I use to.

Help please!!!
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Ive had double bass pedals for a month now and I can play a few songs but I want to get faster. I play heel down because I always tend to lean really far back if I play heel up. What should I do to play faster?
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Chip said:
Warning; long post. It's either just me rambling, or finn's long-postedness has rubbed off on me.

Yes, practicing this stuff slow really helps. Try and get it as slow as you can without losing most of the momentum. Start at level one, and just work on it. Don't rush it, this is a key point. Learn good technique, don't learn a bad one and only practice it at high speeds.

I realised last night that my foot [both feet] does not accept the rebound at all (barely). Luckily, I've only been playing for about 3 years, and haven't focused too drastically on my feet, so it shan't be too hard to correct it. A huge key to success: do not rush speed. Speed comes through relaxation, the notes will sound faster if they are clean, too. Just send a lot of time getting even (haha, "don't get fast, get even" - the speed demon's motto) strokes, clean strokes. Once you get this down well enough, start practicing accents for control etc. Then knock the BPM up a bit.

Don't rush it- your muscles and drumming will thank you for it. I think you will find you will have a lot more fun and find drumming a lot more fun if you are relaxed. Imagine rolling down the kit (or on the bass drum), spreading notes evenly like butter, beautiful even sounding notes, almost effortlessly. Then imagine struggling to belt out uneven, sloppy notes, all tense, at the same speed. Picture this, and then choose which method you would prefer; Rushing and tense, or taking it slowly and relaxed and even.

The reason I'm trying to emphasize this is because I know how hard it can be to resist the temptation of rushing. Just realise that going slow, means you will be cleaner and faster.

I hope that helps.

Excellent post, Chip

rendezvous_drummer said:
Yea man, have you seen his dvd's? He talks about drums while walking through forests. Some of his lyrics though make no sense at all. For example, in "Spirit of the Radio", when the song is near the end, Geddy Lee sings "Echos of the sound of salesmen, of salesmen, OHHHHHHHH SALESMEN!". Hilarious part but odd. Great lyricist none the less.
I don't mean to speak down to you here but you do realize that the preceding part of this "The words of the prophets were written on the studio walls" was a spin off of Simon and Garfunkel's Sound of Silence Lyric, "The words of the prophets were written on the subway walls".
rendezvous_drummer said:
Some of his lyrics though make no sense at all. For example, in "Spirit of the Radio", when the song is near the end, Geddy Lee sings "Echos of the sound of salesmen, of salesmen, OHHHHHHHH SALESMEN!". Hilarious part but odd.
And, I believe, this line refers to the growing commercialism of music (which would explode in the 1980s) at the time in which Rush wasn't cranking out hit song after hit song. As Frank Zappa put it in his book, "and turn up the handclaps....."

Rush and other bands like Genesis were really having to start to reidentify and reinvent themselves. "The Spirit of Radio" is basically a reminder of where radio came from and what made it great. There was a time when the record companies didn't control everything (like the playlists and radio station conglomerates) for the sake of selling commercial slots for advertising (back to Frank here, ..."to buy all the worthless crap people want to sell us")

This song was a real social commentary on where free radio was headed, for better for worse, in the not too distant future..

"One likes to believe in the freedom of music but glitter prizes and endless compromises....."

Do you see the relevance in these words?

I don't know that I even really listen to Rush much anymore, but they did contribute alot and many bands from the 1990s list them as a major influence. And at least Neil, as a lyricist, made people rethink the whole "dumb drummer" attitude. I don't know that Neil would make my top ten list, but he still has contributed quite a bit. And you have to respect a band who didn't sell out for bigger profits in the growing face of top 40 radio. I can think of one band that did and doesn't even tour anymore. Rush is probably still as popular as ever with music fans and they did this doing it their way.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

I did not know that Skitch, thanks for the information, I was very puzzled with that song haha. BTW, how did this come into the double bass technique thread.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Yea i just got an iron cobra double bass pedal not to long ago myself. And well its been a challenge to say the least. My problem is that my set stays at my friends house so i only can practice with it once a week so, here is my question. What is the best way to train myself to have monster bass rolls without actually having the pedals to practice with. Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

I have finally learned the heel toe method and can perform it fairly well on the double bass!!! After watching derricks video, thought i'd try it, and it came so natural and easy! Thanks Derrick!
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Right i can play some double bass stuff okish if i play heel down, but apparantly to get faster you are meant to play heel up, but when i play heel up i cant play anything ata all its weird any suggestions?
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

i find it impossible to play anything heels down, but i can get about 185-190bpm heels up. i've only been playing double-bass a year now but i would definatly recommend learning heels up for speedy stuff
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

I have changed the way I practice DB for speed and endurance.

I play toe-heel, and used to get tired pretty quickly. That is changing now.

I purchased a second double bass pedal (pdp402 for $90) and set the pedal really tight. I then attached it to a gibraltar practice pad in the garage. I purchased 5 lbs ankle weights for each leg. I then set my metronome to 110 and play 16th notes for as long as I can.

The first couple of minutes are tough and the last couple of minutes are hell. Lots of burning! But, I push myself to near failure. I am at 4 minutes now with the weights on. When I am done, I have some minor trouble even walking.

I do this each day for 4 minutes. I started at 16th at 100 but slowly increase the speed each week by 2.

The difference when I get to the kit is amazing. I can play so much longer now and my left leg is much, much stronger. I am faster and more accurate now.

I am very busy, and do not get as much time on the kit as I would like. Now before bed, I practice stick control for 30 to 60 minutes on a practice pad and end with a 5 minutes db session in the garage on the practice pad.

It has paid off!
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

this is for all you willing to learn the heel/toe:


A while ago i put some cry for help here on practicing my heel/toe method.
I watched Derricks video over and over, i tried and tried seemingly endlessly but didn't seem to work out, and moments when I kinda felt "oh it's comming, i'm mastering it".
I tried to speeding up or playing beats with the technique I inconciensly felt into "heel up" again...
but then...

I was soooo eager to learn in I tried practically everything. And, by trying and trying everything, i finally masterd it. OK my speed is not yet very fast, but i feel the control becomming more, and more accurate, precizer if you will (sorry for my spelling).
But I wanna share those things that worked for me...cuz I feel it mayorly important to know.

1st of all: after weeks of watching the video's over and over and trying and trying and getting frustrated i decided to place a mirror next to right feet. So I could see my feetmotion (the wave like motion they should make) FROM THE SIDE.
So you can see your own feet from the same angle as in derrick's video.
This is mayorly important. Anyone who has problems: buy a mirror. Really.With less then half the effort you get more than twice the result. Don't watch your feet directly, watch them in the mirror. Play with short pants on socks. Get your beats even. Keep looking in the mirror. Do easy patterns, include your hands, but keep watching in the mirror. Watch the wave-like motion. Get the beats nice and even.

2)Don't underestimate the importance of the (donno what's the correct english word) settings from your pedal. I got an Iron Cobra and i didn't adjust the tension of the springs and the angle of the beaters until a few weeks ago. Make the springs a bit looser. Not to much tension. Angle of the beaters to: make sure that with the bounce-back they don't hit your feet.
I know you should be able to play heel/toe with all pedals, BUT TO LEARN IT, adjust your pedals. It really, really really helps a whole freakin' lot.

If i had done those 2 things from the beginning....

So for all you willing to begin learning the heel/toe method: try this, donno if it will work out for you but I did practically a miracle for my.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Regarding heel-toe: I'm going out on a limb here but I HATE IT!!!

It usually sounds terrible on an acoustic kit. The two hits are very different and the continuous tap-dance motion is awkward while playing a song. Most of the guys using it employ triggers to smooth out the sound. Tim Waterson doesn't but he's a special case, he is the best in the world at it. (Much respect, Tim)

I have been working on legit doubles ala Lang et al. It has really helped me alot. I can only do 16ths at 160 BPM so far but that translates into 210 BPM plus for heel-up singles and 195 plus for heel down singles. (Yes heel down). I can hold these for at least 30 seconds. Not WFD champ material yet but nothing to sneeze at.

The ankle development you get from "old fashioned" doubles is second to none. Plus the sound is much more musical. Start out with 16ths at 80 BPM and go from there. Don't increase the speed until you're sounding smooth.

Yes, after a few hours you will be able to go faster with heel-toe but maybe the reward isn't as great in the long run. After all, we want to play music, not just fast notes right?

Just my opinion.
 
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