natural talent vs.hard work

joeysnare

Silver Member
im one of the more senior drummers in the music scene in my area. we have a few up and coming kids in town who are just phenominal players, raw natural talents who are just as good as me if not better. both have been playing for under 3 years and im going on 12 years and have had to work my arse off just to get where i am now and i mean WORK HARD!
keep in mind there is no envy on my part, im just fasinated by these kids, their playing , stylistic choices and technique are amazing to me and both are self taught players. is it just genetics that makes these types of drummers? or perhaps the enviroment your brought up in? (my father was a gigging drummer ever since i can remember) ive had to pound drumming into my noggin and these guys just seemed to "get it" right off the hop. pehaps intelligence is a big factor as well.
 
I've struggled a little with this as well. As a classically trained drummer/percussionist I was amazed at what these guys with no formal training could come up with. However, I've found that by in large if you get outside of rock/funk/hip-hop, these guys are lost. Jazz/Latin is not in their bag of tricks.
 
I've struggled a little with this as well. As a classically trained drummer/percussionist I was amazed at what these guys with no formal training could come up with. However, I've found that by in large if you get outside of rock/funk/hip-hop, these guys are lost. Jazz/Latin is not in their bag of tricks.

I think that also depends on a person's surroundings both culturally and socially. You naturally emulate what is presented to you.
 
I have no doubt some people just have natural talent, while others have to work very hard to get to the same point, and many people are somewhere in between.
 
This is indeed a fascinating question. I recently watched a program on the violinist Vanessa Mae who asked herself this exact same question and others, like, is her talent hereditary, how good is her pitch, is it better than the average persons(which it was), what was her environment like when growing up as a child and many other interesting questions she wanted answers to. When 1st asked what she considered to be a fair reflection of her skills, she reckoned it was 30% hard work and 70% talent that got her to where she is today. After putting herself through a barage of tests over a number of days she revised her totals to 50% talent and 50% hard work.

I think this just shows how much we really under estimate the importance of daily ,effective practice. If we ever wish to achieve some sort of command over our instrument, we need to work hard regardless of talent.
 
natural talent matters but in the end hard work is the most important.


anyone from einstein, to paul gilbert will talk about how they spent countless hours on their art in order to be the best at it.

people like to brag and say its natural talent because it makes them look more unique, as if no one can do it but them. dont believe them. work hard for something and youll get what you want, playing drums well is something anyone can do well if they put their mind to it.
 
It is not mentioned in the OP, but how much work did these guys actually do? It is not years played, it is minutes and hours.

I've been known to practice on a pad for up to 16 hours and it is nothing for me to do this. I don't do it as much these days. But on a day off playing I usually put in at least 6 to 10 hours.

How much work is hard work?
 
It is not mentioned in the OP, but how much work did these guys actually do? It is not years played, it is minutes and hours.

I've been known to practice on a pad for up to 16 hours and it is nothing for me to do this. I don't do it as much these days. But on a day off playing I usually put in at least 6 to 10 hours.

How much work is hard work?

Also, it's WHAT you do with that time that matters. I had some friends in high school that would practice for 2-3 hours a day for years, and play nothing but mid-tempo rock beats and bashed-out fills. Guess what they could do after all those years of playing?
 
Also, it's WHAT you do with that time that matters. I had some friends in high school that would practice for 2-3 hours a day for years, and play nothing but mid-tempo rock beats and bashed-out fills. Guess what they could do after all those years of playing?

i totally agree.

what and how you practise, and what and how you think are the most important factors i think.

and i would put what and how you think way way way ahead of what and how you practise.

you can practise the 'right" things and spend enough time on them, but its the mind behind it all thats going to make someone "great", and another player of a similar development path "good".
 
Also, it's WHAT you do with that time that matters. I had some friends in high school that would practice for 2-3 hours a day for years, and play nothing but mid-tempo rock beats and bashed-out fills. Guess what they could do after all those years of playing?

now this i find interesting, i had never thought of it in that light that some people choose to practice the wrong things as opposed to the right things. it could be anything from emulating a drummer whose style people really respond to all the way to just practicing certain things properly and being lucky enough to not pick up any bad habits early on that might cripple them later in their career.
 
Well, I don't think there is such a thing as practicing the 'wrong' things. I think it's all about choice. If you practice straight beats all the time, then you're probably better at it then if you've been practicing everything you can possibly practice.

As for the talent vs. hard work debate, I see talent as a part of hard work. Talent isn't just what you can do withóut practicing but also how fast you pick up stuff whén you're practicing. In the end, I think it's only important that you can say to yourself that you're working hard enough to achieve your goals.
 
now this i find interesting, i had never thought of it in that light that some people choose to practice the wrong things as opposed to the right things. it could be anything from emulating a drummer whose style people really respond to all the way to just practicing certain things properly and being lucky enough to not pick up any bad habits early on that might cripple them later in their career.

I didn't say anything about practicing "wrong" or "right" things. I didn't mean to infer that at all. Read my post again. I'm basically saying that as a drummer, you are what you practice. Or, rather, whatever you choose to practice, you are more comfortable playing that. Nothing is right or wrong, unless you want to learn skill A but practice skill B all the time
 
The folks that slay me are the ones who have the combination of natural talent, and were fortunate to have someone direct them into a well rounded educations, and had the personal dedication to follow up on this and practice all of it. It is easy for someone with natural talent to fall back on it and just do what comes naturally. But there is a pretty hard ceiling to that, and when they run into that ceiling, it's tough to break through.

Conversely, I know folks who have studied and practiced for countless hours, but still don't make music. Something is missing. They know tons of things intellectually, they can perform all kinds of rudiments to a metronome. But there is still something that separates them from the folks that turn your head around.

I think it takes both. In spite of his wild man street player persona, and all the loose go for broke vids of him out there, I can assure you that Thomas Pridgen has spent years studying and practicing rudiments and all manner of patterns and styles. In person (at least when I first met him around mutual friends) he is very humble and soft spoken and a very dedicated musician. I have a guitar playing friend, Ken Harrill (who did a lot of the tracks on the early Guitar Hero releases) who when he was younger used to sit down with Benny Goodman transcriptions practicing his reading (of course, burning all those lines into his hands expanded his musical vocabulary at least). John Wedemeyer is another friend who will go home after a gig and stay up another 3-4 hours practicing things he wasn't happy with during the gig. He also transcribes something nearly every day. And not just transcribes it, he analyzes it to understand the whys, turns it around this way and that and completely absorbs the concept, not just the lick. And he's doing this with stuff all over the map, from Jimmy Herring, to Joe Diorrio.

It's dedication like this that separates these folks from the mearly talented.
 
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. Everybody has their own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to drumming.

Out of all the drummers I know, no-one can single-stroke roll as fast as I can. Not even my drum teacher. But, what my teacher lacks in speed, he makes up for feeling, and pulse. Nobody I've met can jazz it up like he can.

I'll let you in on a little secret, though:

The drummers that have to work hard are the ones that keep on keeping on. My rationale is this: if a drummer is naturally talented, they don't work, simply because they don't feel they have to. If they don't work, they'll stagnate, and lose interest. But, if a drummer has to put in the effort, they're going to be hard-working and persistant, and they'll stop at nothing to get as good as the naturally-talented ones. This means that stagnation simply won't happen, and they'll never lose interest.

Hope this helps =)
 
I think both (natural talented and hard worker) deserve some credit.

The point is that natural talented sort of (God's gift) most of the time don't really appreciate, value what they have got to put it on the drums. Now, hard-workers (Self-made) have to get their hands on the job, step by step, slowly but surely to move on. But, they should be able to evaluate their progress to reach experience and mastery, to see where they are standing on regarding drumming.

My grain of sand to this thread...
 
I think, like with any form of art, it's a mix of both.

I actually got started drumming when I was 8 on accident. The way grade school band worked was the director would come to you and ask what you wanted to play, and you would try out on it and a few others to see what you were good at. Well the week before that for me I broke my arm. All i could do at the "Audition" was hold a drumstick. Turns out I had excellent rhythm for an 8 year old.

So there we go, a bit of natural talent. Some people just have rhythm, and some people can't keep a beat to save their life.

But at the same time you're never going to get better, and advance as a player unless you put work in. Playing and listening to music of all types, not just rock and punk like so many young drummers do. That's the only way you're going to become a multifaceted drummer. Which in turn will open up a world of possibity, and people to jam with.



So yeah. It seems to me like it's equal parts.
 
i have a natural talent with polyrhythms, its kinda freaky i do not have to practice them.
i can just do them with 2 hands, i do have to practice them with a complicated groove or
even just broken to thee feet on a kit, but its cool i can do odd meters with my hands no
problem. my doctor said im one of the 2 percent of people that is left handed dominant
controlled by the left brain, so i think that might have something to do with it.

i just wish it was automatic on the drum set!!!
 
Good thread... Like anything else, you dont know what you can do before trying it. I ve been thinking about a similar quandary.

Does anyone agree or at least have wondered if playing a "certain" instrument is pre-disposed naturally to children of musicians? Can playing drums be a trait you are born with?

Fpr example- My first set was given to me when I was around 6-7 yrs old.. I had seen my dad play when I was 7-8 months old but only remember seing the drums set up and always wanting to play 'em. So I sat sown and never turned back. I ve tried guitar or bass, even keys and horns... but had abolutely no interest in playing these "things". I just gravitated towards the drums and stuck with em since then.

So was I a drummer from the beginning of creation or just happened to enjoy it alot because its what I was exposed to? If I encourage my son to play and say "Its in Our Blood" would I be full of sh!t or tellin the truth?
 
Unsure if anything is in our blood. Was never a fan of eugenics. But I think exposure to things heightens our sense of them. For example, if one was born into a Brasilian samba family and exposed to the music everyday it would be hard to not grow with a sense of rhythm.

But the above is my uneducated guess. I suppose we await to see what other mysteries the study of DNA will show us in time to come.

Having said that and thought about possible implications, would the discovery that certain individuals are best suited to certain applications have a detrimental effect on society? For example, if a person was found through his or her DNA to be best suited to being a pilot, would society apply pressure to the individual to follow that course? Even against the individual's wishes?

Maybe this is the next step in the evolution of double bass drum driven heavy metal. Loads of resentful angry drummers forced to play against their wishes running full speed on bass drum pedals? Would this create innovation or just faster and faster running on bass drum pedals? And in turn could this lead to an epidemic of sore throats among the people forced to sing high speed angry and resentful 'Death to those who forced me into this life' metal?

It remains to be seen.
 
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