MOELLER METHOD

Re: Moeller

Hi cducar. Have you ever watched or seen a drummer break the moeller technique down? You made an interesting statement when you said... "I don't get how this stroke is any better than a normal hit of a drum...?"

Without getting too intimate, the Moeller technique allows you to hit the drum 2 to 4 times more within a single stroke. It allows you to create more sound, and fill the measure.

Lets keep it simple my friends, don't throw the last 50 years of drumming at him... lol
 
Re: Moeller

I've seen several explanations of the Moeller system on the web. All have a different flavour but they seem to imply the MS is just about speed. That is NOT NOT NOT the case!!!

I speak as someone who studied the MS with one of the UK's top educators: Bob Armstrong.

The MS will totally revolutionise the way you play IF you study it properly with a good teacher. It will take at least 18 months (on average) to really start to soak into your general playing.

It will internalise your playing INTO your body. You will play with more FEEL than ever before. It will develop an internal continuum in you whilst you play. An inner invisible circular motion: perpetual motion. This will improve your TIME immensely. Particularly your ability to play at really slow tempos (so overlooked) will improve.

Your ability to play accents will improve by 3000%. Your jazz time feel will start to take shape. Your ability to play such hihat feels as the Lope will drastically improve.

The MS is like a soft martial art as applied to drumming.

Sanford Moeller refused to teach it at one point saying that naturally gifted players would play like that anyway. But don't make the mistake of thinking/hoping you are one of those if you are not! If you need to work at it with a teacher, you need to work at it with a teacher.

Take a chance!
 
Re: Moeller

I don't get how this stroke is any better than a normal hit of a drum...?

it isnt any better...its just a preference for some drummers. there is no such thing as "better" when it comes to personal taste and expression
 
Re: Moeller

it isnt any better...its just a preference for some drummers. there is no such thing as "better" when it comes to personal taste and expression


hmmm, i'd have to disagree. It is possible to be objective about htis when it comes to aspects of technique. The points kroy made are all spot on. Incorporate the system into your playing and you will, objectively, be a better player, primarily in technique, and thus in musical expression.
 
Re: Moeller

the key word is "objectively". objectively you could be better. i use moeller, but to say im better than before i used it....objectively perhaps
 
Re: Moeller

The difference between a Moeller stroke and a normal stroke is that all the inertia and power is gained from the movement not muscles! It's one of the most natural and relaxed techniques ever

Moeller method is all about accents, if you want to play a solid single stroke roll without any accents Moeller technique is not what you need for this purpose
 
Re: Moeller

the key word is "objectively". objectively you could be better. i use moeller, but to say im better than before i used it....objectively perhaps

Well, yes. Quite. So if we've clarified that employing the moeller system objectively betters a drummer, then a moeller stroke is better than a regular stroke.

Anyway, I can't think of a single reason for an intermediate to advanced level student not to be taught it.
 
Re: Moeller

the key word is "objectively". objectively you could be better. i use moeller, but to say im better than before i used it....objectively perhaps

You gained an additional technique to use... Nothing subjective about that. you are better for it.
 
Re: Moeller

The difference between a Moeller stroke and a normal stroke is that all the inertia and power is gained from the movement not muscles! It's one of the most natural and relaxed techniques ever

Moeller method is all about accents, if you want to play a solid single stroke roll without any accents Moeller technique is not what you need for this purpose

thank you!
202020202020
 
Re: Moeller

The MS will totally revolutionise the way you play IF you study it properly with a good teacher. It will take at least 18 months (on average) to really start to soak into your general playing.

It will internalise your playing INTO your body. You will play with more FEEL than ever before. It will develop an internal continuum in you whilst you play. An inner invisible circular motion: perpetual motion. This will improve your TIME immensely. Particularly your ability to play at really slow tempos (so overlooked) will improve!

Nicely put Kroy. I can't add or take away from your comment.
 
Re: Moeller

Moeller will definetly improve you if you can apply it. As said, it takes time and effort to incorporate it to your playing. It's worth the effort though!
 
Re: Moeller

I'd like to know what experience people who make comments about their use of the Moeller in their playing have had. Particularly where people are... perhaps a little 'elusive' when asked if it's improved their playing.

How long did you study it for?

Who with? (and what was the teacher's history and experience with the MS)

What were you shown?

(In my case I studied it with two teachers for a total of three years. The first teacher was a student of the first, and the second teacher was Bob Armstrong, who I understand was taught the MS by one of Sanford Moeller's students. My answaer to the question, did it improve my playing is... Yes! yes! yes! By 30000%!)
 
Re: Moeller

yes!!! i am "better" than i was before, from learning the moeller, but its all relative, moeller would not be better in acdc though, but i do understand what u mean. i have been trying to develop it for the last several years or so on my own...or by watching vids. im very anal about technique and taking things slow. i live in a small area, not many moeller players, let alone drummers, unless i went to the college a few miles away. its a great technique, and im glad i have been able to harness it in my playing, however mastering it will take a life time
 
Re: Moeller

All the vids I've seen about the moeller (and I admit I haven't watched all of Jim Chapin's movie) only seem to cover a small area, and certainly very little of the great stuff I was taught. If you'd received the same exposure, you might not make the AC/DC comment. But let me explain that.

Pretty early on in my training I was taught to use the MS in a Rock groove.

Here's the most basic example of this application:

Basic Rock Groove:
Hi hat plays 8ths 1+2+3+4+
Snare on 2 & 4
Kick on 1 & 3

Moeller hand movements:
HiHat: T U D T T U D T
Snare - (U) D - - (U) D -

Legend:
T = Tapstroke (not like Jim Chapin's tapstroke - this is more like a ghost stroke - stick height from drum only 1cm max)
U = Upstroke
(U) = left hand makes upstroke movement with right handed, but doesn't actually play a stroke)
D= Downstroke (accent)

This will give you a real 'slam you in the face' rock groove, very Phil Rudd.

Now check the way Phil Rudd's playing at 2.52 in this you tube movie (the left hand movement playing the backbeat is very Moeller, like the (U) D in my illiustration):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW5E6x5KtdU
 
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Re: Moeller

correction:

(U) = left hand makes upstroke movement in unison with right hand, but doesn't actually play a stroke on the drum before coming up.
 
Re: Moeller

The difference between a Moeller stroke and a normal stroke is that all the inertia and power is gained from the movement not muscles! It's one of the most natural and relaxed techniques ever

Moeller method is all about accents, if you want to play a solid single stroke roll without any accents Moeller technique is not what you need for this purpose

Totally agree, it's so relaxed and I don't think I can even do it properly yet. But whatever I'm doing feels far more relaxed and has improved my playing somewhat.

Tom
 
Re: Moeller

What a privilege to study with JoJo Mayer, Raymond. What country does he teach in? I think I'll probably have to get his DVD - it looks great.

Thanks for providing that info...
 
Re: Moeller

To answer you enquiry Kroy, I learnt the fundamentals of the system under the guidance of Adam Bushell at Brighton Institute of Modern Music. The first term was spent studying it intensively, and all other lessons were looked at from the perspective of the technique.
The four basic strokes were studied and then applied to various sticking patterns and rudiments, eg. accented singles and doubles, flams, drags, HH/RC ostinatos.
 
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