Tama Now Made in China

Powerful argument...

I would encourage you to take a look at some things "Made In China":

beijing_national_stadium-olympic-2008.jpg

Actually that was designed by western architects. I think even built under the supervision of western contractors.
It's ugly as hell nonetheless.

The main problem I have with things being made in china isn't so much the quality - the chinese are beginning to figure out engineering principles. Tama superstars have been built in china before. I own a china-made set and they're fine, except for the snare drum.
The problem is ethics, how labourers are treated in china. And some environmental concerns (but I also have those with any non-western-european build and even if it's western european it's a long shot).
 
Ok ....if Tama's high-end kits were made in the USA, ...THEN they moved to China ....BIG ISSUE....

From Japan to China ???

Who cares?
 
Actually that was designed by western architects. I think even built under the supervision of western contractors.
It's ugly as hell nonetheless.

I think it's a wonderful building...a simple matter of perception.

The main problem I have with things being made in china isn't so much the quality - ...The problem is ethics, how labourers are treated in china.

If the pictures in my post are meant to illustrate something it is simply that nickel and dime economics have not always been a prevailing value in Chinese culture. This is the oldest continuous civilization in the world!! These guys invented paper, tea, fireworks, silk - stuff we STILL use today, centuries later!!! However, if we treat people like crap, we will most likely get crap out of the other end. Cheap construction? Poor quality control? If you skimp on paying the actual hand labour (not only wages but simple benefits as sick leave, or even health benefits, let alone regular working hours) - then what other corners are you not willing to cut to make a bigger profit? You will ALWAYS get what you pay for...

I don't necessarily think moving factories into China will be bad for Tama - provided they do things right, of course... However, I don't think it's going to help them move a hell of a lot forward either... If they REALLY want to get moving in the right direction, what I think the need to do is pay close attention to their gaps in their market offering. Everything is either mega-custom, ultra-limited, only 100 in the world kind of deal, or a cheapo, crap-sounding instrument. This has been so for quite a long time now. The new Superstars were LONG overdue, and even now, they're kind of "out there by themselves"...

Just My opinion as a twenty year old Tama fan...
 
Mapex makes all of its products in Taiwan, from the low end Horizons to the high end Orions and Saturns. Black Panther snares are made there as well. So, no, good things come out of China.

Against the lack-of-quality point: It's the fault of the individual companies that contract work into China, not the factories themselves. Business entities that enforce a good QA program, such as Apple Inc (just an example here, don't kill me) will consistently get good products. Companies that let manufacturers run on autopilot will get whatever the factory manages to produce. A company can't just hand you a plan, provide *NO* feedback or guidance and expect a fantastic product everytime.

Against the ethics/exploitation point: It's a matter of income-to-expenses ratio. Making $10 to $12 an hour in most of the US isn't great, but it is sustainable on a 40 hour work week. In New York City, however, it is not. I had never got a paycheck larger than $450ish a week while I lived there. I would not have been able to support myself well, seeing as most places to rent are $1k+, food prices are insane, public transit fares keep going up, and bills. Utility bills are excessive out there. However, $450 a week out here in suburban washington state would be leave me a paycheck or two free a month to save/spend. $3 an hour may seem low and exploitative to one, but never forget to ask how much they spend.

As a bit of news, I've already seen Tama SC B/B prices fall about $250 on the guitar center site, which is about 1/7th of the price. That's huge!

Addendum : I'd like to make clear, I am *NOT* for exploitation of a workforce or the consuming public at large. I am for looking a bit deeper and doing a bit of research so I can judge based on facts rather than emotions.
 
This is news to me. I've not heard a word about TAMA moving their high end lines to China. How can this be confirmed?

From my perspective as a drum collector who works around drums for a living, Japan and germany tend to place the most concern in finishing and packaging their products, whether they be cars or drums. Has anyone seen how Yamaha package high end kits? Amazing!
 
For certain markets, Pearl manufacture their Masterworks and Reference lines in Taiwan.

Remember the days when no-one would buy Japanese because of the stigma that what they made was junk?

Ha Ha you are right!! I totally remember that..........everyone was like those stinking Japs. make junk, now its China.
 
Mapex makes all of its products in Taiwan, from the low end Horizons to the high end Orions and Saturns. Black Panther snares are made there as well. So, no, good things come out of China.

Against the lack-of-quality point: It's the fault of the individual companies that contract work into China, not the factories themselves..

Mapex drums and the models from Sonor by Mapex are made in China, not Taiwan. As far as the contract work, like what most companies do, I seriously doubt Tama will just have some other company make a Starclassic Maple, etc... I would bet these are Tama facilities.
 
I totally respect the Chinese. So no comment here is derogatory. I feel they do have a throw away attitude to many things. For example, the Chinese invented the mechanical clock. Hundreds of years later when western missionaries showed them a mechanical clock, the Chinese were amazed! They'd forgotten they invented it!

Chinese made DVD players.

Need I say more?
 
This subject is a tough call. I am old enough to remember when almost everything made in Japan was garbage and almost everything we bought seemed to be made in Japan. When the "made in China" labeling became noticeable I had the same thoughts but my personal experience has been that Chinese products are mostly better quality than Japanese made product of the past but I mostly credit that to better manufacturing and stricter product rules that we benefit from now. I agree on the matter of exploited employees but sadly almost everything we buy in the US is tied to that very problem.....

I purchased DW kit but very much covet a Pearl Reference set. It does feel good to have bought an American made product. I also covet a Tama Starclassic BB. :)
 
Are SuperStars made 100% birch?? I'm a little confused check out theese link tell me the diference (except the finnish):

http://www.thomann.de/gb/tama_sl62hzbn_gp_superstar_hyper.htm 100% birch shells

http://www.thomann.de/gb/tama_sk62hzbns_sgw_superstar_hyper.htm covered 100& birch

and searching on Ebay for a SS i've found an exact model but this one is from: "Superstar shells use birch for the main inner plies for strong projection and aggressive open sound. To enhance Superstar's great looks, basswood"!!!!

Now i'm confused!!!
 
Remember the days when no-one would buy Japanese because of the stigma that what they made was junk?

Japanese labor used to be used to produce cheap junk for export. Similarly, there is no reason why China can't (and they do) produce flawless quality. However, the current business orthodoxy says you go to China for cheap labor when you are cutting costs to the absolute floor, in which case you are also cutting corners on materials, standards and QC.

Ergo, it is not unreasonable to assume that all things being equal, a Chinese-made product will be inferior to one produced in Japan, S. Korea, Europe or the US, nor is it wrong to argue that China can make a product rivalling those made in any country.
 
Maybe they'll start selling Starclassics at Wal-Mart.
Roll-back prices, baby!
 
After listening and playing a set of Gretsch Catalina Maples for the past year that I paid $450 for brand new, I have absolutely no problem with things made in China!
 
One aspect that hasn't been mentioned is that the US government doesn't really help drum manufacturers (small business) in the context of the financial side or the taxes and amount of money it costs to run a business in the US. From my perspective I really don't think of drum companies as massive corporate entities; i.e. even as big as Zildjian is, I doubt they'd ever be able to file chapter 11 bankruptcy and then hit the government up for bale out money. However it's small and mid sized companies like these that are bearing the burden of rising healthcare costs, heavy taxes, regulations and restrictions. I mean seriously there are a lot of businesses who don't want to move anything that they run to China, but they have to do it to compete. I'm from California so this is ground zero for businesses leaving/not be able to start up because of the regulations implemented by the government to pay for state and county entitlement programs. I was watching a 60 minutes a couple of weeks ago about the World Trade Centers reconstruction after 9/11, long story short; not a whole lot has been done. That's largely because Port Authority is overseeing it, the labor unions are continuously negotiating with the owner/s of the building, probably countless permitting restrictions, the design has changed at least three times, the governor and the mayor both have a say, the NYPD actually had a say in it as well; and that's just what 60 minutes had mentioned, god only knows what else there is. And there's still a massive god damn hole in the ground. I mean seriously, how are you supposed to get anything done? They also mentioned that the Empire State building was built in about a year during the height of the depression.
 
Being a bit older, I just find it kind of funny that folks are lamenting that something is not going to be made in Japan any longer . . . seeing Japan as high-quality and China as not capable of producing high-quality. It wasn't that long ago that folks had the perception that anything made in Japan wasn't going to be high-quality. Give China a chance.
 
Tama didn't get to where they are in the drum world by making inferior products.
The didn't get there by being stupid either.

I'm sure that they will maintain high standards of QC.
Especially with their high end line.
 
If its any consolation to you as to Tama's Chinese quality,
I own and play a three year old Stagestar, Tama's cheapest kit!
I play it at gigs and almost every day.
There are no flaws in this kit. No peeling wrap, No pitting chrome, No imperfect bearing edges, The drums tune and play perfectly! As a matter of fact, It's my favorite kit of the four that I own.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another higher end Tama Chinese kit.
 
This may have already been touched on but, stigma is hard to escape. Chinese manufacturing used to be considered cheap and was associated with poor quality. China is now the world's second-largest economy, behind the US (and will likely surpass it coming years.) Manufacturing has caught up with the world, in China, and they're producing top-quality goods at relatively low costs, thanks to a (relatively) free market economic stance on behalf of the Chinese gov't.

Let's face it, most hardware on our drums is already made there. They do it just as good for less cost. The difference you'd be paying is in labor costs, which are held artificially high in the US and Japan, due to a mile-high myriad of labor, manufacturing, import, export, etc. regulations and crooked monetary policy.
 
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