Ride Cymbal Technique

oops

Silver Member
I had a lesson today with a new teacher, just looking around at some different guys in Melbourne, having lessons with each looking for someone I really gel with and who can take me in the direction I want to go.

This guy was great: open, friendly, very musical, and an awesome drummer to boot.

We played for a bit, worked on some time ideas, and then he turned to me and said: 'I'm very worried about your ride cymbal technique'.

I hurt my wrist about 3 weeks ago, and I've been playing around it, avoiding the techniques that seem to hurt it, but it hasn't really gone away.

He gave me some ideas for my technique, but he told me I should check out the masters on youtube, look at some different people's technique and build my own off of that.

Any ideas on people I should emulate?

He also talked about the idea of tension, and using it as a musical device (to create clarity in the RC pattern). Check out Jimmy Cobb as a guy who plays with a fairly stiff approach.

Watch this video for an idea of what (i think) he meant: http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/edsophkosa.html

Should I try and emulate Ed Soph's RC technique? I'm just concerned about not hurting myself. I'm going to guess the best approach would be to get a teacher to work on it with me. True?
 
How do you play now? Back in the day I was taught to start out with a pure finger motion in the French position, and later on my technique has evolved to something reminiscent of the Moeller and the open-close -- still in the French position..
 
Watch and study carefully what you see in this clip by the late master Tony Williams at his best on the subject of ride playing technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDu6w66F5dU


Actions combined with sound as seen in this clip {relaxed, fluid and flowing motions but intense, pulling the sound out of the cymbal} speak louder than many words could possibly express when it comes to playing a ride cymbal.

When I took a masterclass with Bob Moses around 25 years ago he had this same approach perfected for ride cymbal playing as seen in this clip which he showed me the fine points of and with his help changed my ride playing approach forever especially when dealing with burning swing tempos for a LONG time of required performance without burning out or hurting my body in the long run for years of professional playing situations that were to follow up to the present

Again. Watch carefully many times!
 
Last edited:
Wavelength: My current technique utilizes the thumb as the main emphasis. I play thumb up and kind of push my thumb into the stick into the ride. As my wrist started to hurt I flipped my hand over to accomodate, pulling up a sort of german/free motion. It really lacks control.

Steamer: Will check it out, thanks.

Evan: Today's was with Ronnie Ferella, not sure if you know him? He's married to Michelle Nicole. They play a mean set of standards every Thursday at the Brunswick Green. $10 gets you entry, a free pot, and a free bowl of chips.

I'm thinking about going to Tony Floyd or Dave Beck to get intensive technique lessons.
 
My current technique utilizes the thumb as the main emphasis. I play thumb up and kind of push my thumb into the stick into the ride.

The thumb should play a more passive role -- it should just create a relaxed fulcrum with the index finger while the three back fingers throw the stick at the ride cymbal.
 
I was watching that video over and over for about 15minutes straight, and I noticed his grip is wayyyyyyyy back on the stick, almost at the end. These may be a totally naive questions, but does that help with playing at quicker tempi?

My initial thought was that it would make it more difficult (I'm going to try it for myself tonight), but then again, Tony's so good he makes God himself want to go home and shed.

So, that said, do you find that different grips help/hinder different speeds/volumes? I'm not necessarily asking about "french vs. german", more like "different stick positions within french grip".

What have you discovered?
 
I was watching that video over and over for about 15minutes straight, and I noticed his grip is wayyyyyyyy back on the stick, almost at the end. These may be a totally naive questions, but does that help with playing at quicker tempi?

My initial thought was that it would make it more difficult (I'm going to try it for myself tonight), but then again, Tony's so good he makes God himself want to go home and shed.

So, that said, do you find that different grips help/hinder different speeds/volumes? I'm not necessarily asking about "french vs. german", more like "different stick positions within french grip".

What have you discovered?

When the stick is held this far back {end of stick lining up bottom of palm of hand} combined with a good fulcrum grip it creates a more natural point of balance for the motion of the stick in the hand. Basic physics of motion related to the sticks movement in the fulcrum grip.

This is just one part of a piece of the the overall grip and approach in the mix as seen in the clip.
 
I'm going to watch this thread as this is the part of my playing that I'm still the least comfortable with. I'm playing my ride in French grip as Wave described but I find it inefficient to switch my grip to German use the bell or quickly hit a crash on that side of my kit with any great force.
 
The thumb should play a more passive role -- it should just create a relaxed fulcrum with the index finger while the three back fingers throw the stick at the ride cymbal.

Yeah, if you use your thumb to "push the stick into the ride", you'll impact your thumb joint with each stroke, which will cause many problems over time. Arthritis, weakness of the strained muscles used to support the thumb, wrist compaction--just to name a few. I know a few cats in town who used to do this to play up tempo, and now one of them can't even hold a fork or pen with his right hand.

You can do a "push-pull" (as JoJo Mayer calls it, and John Riley recommends, and Tony Williams demonstrates in that video shared by Steamer) which will put most of the responsibility of the fulcrum on the stick and away from hurting your thumb joint. I've done it for years, and it allows you to play almost effortlessly at all tempos.
 
Yeah, if you use your thumb to "push the stick into the ride", you'll impact your thumb joint with each stroke, which will cause many problems over time. Arthritis, weakness of the strained muscles used to support the thumb, wrist compaction--just to name a few. I know a few cats in town who used to do this to play up tempo, and now one of them can't even hold a fork or pen with his right hand.

You can do a "push-pull" (as JoJo Mayer calls it, and John Riley recommends, and Tony Williams demonstrates in that video shared by Steamer) which will put most of the responsibility of the fulcrum on the stick and away from hurting your thumb joint. I've done it for years, and it allows you to play almost effortlessly at all tempos.

Yes this is the importance of a good fulcrum grip and the point of balance of the stick in the the hand as key factors.

Watch the slowed down version of the Tony clip I first posted clip in the right sidebar videos which really helps understand the importance of the motion of the stick with the flat of the pad of the thumb and fulcrum finger joint grip and the stick and other related fingers and the fluid motion of the wrist.
 
Watch this video for an idea of what (i think) he meant: http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/edsophkosa.html

Should I try and emulate Ed Soph's RC technique? I'm just concerned about not hurting myself. I'm going to guess the best approach would be to get a teacher to work on it with me. True?

Ed Soph was trying to get across the point of subdivisions. The first two were straightened out a bit more. The third was based on triplets. Look at how he loosens up when playing the third pattern.

Check out his other videos such as this one. He doesn't look stiff there.
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/edsophjazztrio.html

If you are using a German grip for jazz ride cymbal, you are probably in the minority - most use French. But you are in good company - Shelly Manne played German Grip on the ride.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r14I5jbJqu8&feature=related

He also talked about the idea of tension, and using it as a musical device (to create clarity in the RC pattern). Check out Jimmy Cobb as a guy who plays with a fairly stiff approach.

I would not start with a stiff approach. You can use a bit of tension to create special effects, but I would start with a loose approach like Joe Morello has. Check out his second DVD from Hot Licks "Around the Kit." If you emulate Joe, you are emulating someone who is almost 80 years old and still has amazing hands - and he teaches a natural technique that utilizes rebound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0XED9VI2cg


Jeff
 
Some great advice here boys. I'll work on watching that Joe Morello and that Tony Williams video.

Jeffwj: Sorry, I wasn't trying to say Ed has tension in his playing, I thought he was using it as a 'musical tool' if you will, to change the RC feel. I get what you mean, how he was opening up the feel.
 
Jeffwj: Sorry, I wasn't trying to say Ed has tension in his playing, I thought he was using it as a 'musical tool' if you will, to change the RC feel. I get what you mean, how he was opening up the feel.

Yes, but you notice how the tighter, squared off cymbal phrasing also produced a feeling of tension. The rounder, triplet feel produced a more relaxed sound.

Jeff
 
Yes, but you notice how the tighter, squared off cymbal phrasing also produced a feeling of tension. The rounder, triplet feel produced a more relaxed sound.

Jeff

Yeah, I understand that. I'll be working on that feel somewhere down the road, after my technique clears up.
 
Back
Top