Band members with bad timing

TroutMacDuff

Junior Member
Hello!

Anyone have any experience playing in a band where one (or worse, all) of the members has bad time? Be it rushing, dragging, or just generally being rubbish.

I play with a band once a week, just an informal free-for-all type jam session every Tuesday. Jazz /Latin jazz standards with some blues and rock stuff thrown in. One of the people who goes, and usually plays at least half of the night, has a terrible sense of rhythm and time. Speeding everything up and playing things that throw everything out, etc. You know the type. Sounds like an energetic child with an instrument.

I can feel my timing getting worse since playing there. Mostly in that I rush things. I'm not saying my timing was ever perfect, but usually I could keep pretty consistent through a tune. Perhaps once in a while I'd try something new and speed up because of that. But now I'm gradually speeding up. So with my time already on the verge of speeding up all the time, and everyone else pulling me forward, it's no surprise that the ends are much faster than the starts.

It's surprising how difficult it can be to hold people back who want to run away!

Any advice, exercise books or generally anything to help combat? Perhaps similar to stick control but incorporating the whole kit.

Trout.
 
Record your sessions and try to get then to listen back and discuss. If the person in question hears for themselves...it might be easier to deal with. Perhaps try and plant the notion that musical time is everything.

If this doesn't work, I don't know what will. Bribery perhaps.
 
Recently I dropped a member from my band, because he just wasn't up to it.

Where previously it felt like I was trying to take songs by the scruff of the neck and bully them - the songs - into compliance, now songs just flow.

As an added bonus, the rest of the band is now much more motivated, and we feel like we're making real progress.

My 0.02: Either you need to leave or the bad timer needs to leave.
 
now songs just flow.

That's the key word right there, flow. An even flow feels so good. Not a jerky flow. A smooth pour. It's really meter, but flow is a much more human way to think of it.

I saw a band do Charlie Daniel's "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" last Saturday. The chorus felt like 10 BPM slower than the verses. It didn't maintain the energy flow. Really noticeable to me. Of course the rest of the band adjusted seamlessly and the audience was none the wiser. But I could tell lol. While the fiddling was pretty good, the feel was not consistent like a good country song should be. It really is that important, the flow. It's that indescribable thing that separate the great bands from the good bands.
 
Either you need to leave or the bad timer needs to leave.

I should have mentioned in my OP, but leaving is not an option, because there is no 'band'. Just a group of various (mostly regular) people and an open stage. I don't want to stop going, because, in spite of the timing thing, I'm still learning a lot. The guys there are mostly quite far above my level. It's been good practice. I just need to work on combating the timing thing.

That's the key word right there, flow. An even flow feels so good. Not a jerky flow. A smooth pour. It's really meter, but flow is a much more human way to think of it.

I saw a band do Charlie Daniel's "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" last Saturday. The chorus felt like 10 BPM slower than the verses. It didn't maintain the energy flow. Really noticeable to me. Of course the rest of the band adjusted seamlessly and the audience was none the wiser. But I could tell lol. While the fiddling was pretty good, the feel was not consistent like a good country song should be. It really is that important, the flow. It's that indescribable thing that separate the great bands from the good bands.


Yes, meter, you're definitely right there. While it's generally natural, and sometimes intended, for a song to gradually increase in tempo, everything is completely ruined when different sections are in different tempos. It's like the drummer gets a tempo for the sections in his head separately and isn't versatile enough to play either at either speed.

It's such a shame when you see otherwise great musicians with no sense of time. It's disappointingly common with guitarists.
 
If it's an informal thing, why not just stop mid-tune and say "you're rushing' or 'you're dragging' ...'this is going too slow, too fast'. 'Lets start over get it right.'?
Or hold your ground on your own tempo and let this guy flail way out?

That kind of action can point to the problem and instil change. Or at very least, it can produce a good band argument to go home and tell your loved ones about.
 
Correction - sorry, I re-read your first post and now see you are "up on a stage". Aha.

1. hold your tempo, don't be pushed around, or
2. tell them your issue
3. leave the outfit

Our bass player in one band is starting to falter all the time, he clearly is not practicing, or its booze. I too will soon have to do 1, 2 or 3.
 
I thought it was a band situation too. Yea, not much you can do there. You have the right attitude. Keep going. You're learning a crap ton of stuff. The best thing you can do in that situation is keep such good feeling time, so that everybody can hear you have a superior tempo/meter sense that they want to play to you. A good feeling drummer is PRICELESS to the others. It takes a lot of heat off them. The groove begins with the drummer. Even if you have a funky solid bass player....a drummer with underdeveloped time feel can spoil it all. So the drummer HAS to be able to groove nicely for the band to groove nicely.

Stay as solid and unwavering as you can. Make it feel as good as possible. Let them go off, in this case, not your issue. It's for the greater good. Show everybody what great time sounds like. Keeping time and keeping great feeling time are like night and day. If you can do that amongst chaos, you'll only strengthen your resolve. When in doubt, keep time. I mean keep great feeling time. You can't polish a turd, but you can make it go by smoothly lol.

Drums shouldn't have to adjust. Way too noticeable. Kills the flow. It's the one instrument that has to be unwavering front to back.
 
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Find another player of the Timing Afflicted One's instrument who can keep time. Get them to show up and limit TAO's stage time.
 
Keep going. You're learning a crap ton of stuff.

Stay as solid and unwavering as you can. Make it feel as good as possible. Let them go off, in this case, not your issue.

Drums shouldn't have to adjust. Way too noticeable. Kills the flow. It's the one instrument that has to be unwavering front to back.


YES, everything Larry said.

This is a great learning experience for you.

Keeping a band in time, especially when they push and pull, is the drummer's job.

Talk to the bass player. (Gosh, I hope this out of time player is not the bass player)
You and the bass player can stay on solid rhythm together. Let the bad player weave in and out of the solid rhythm.
If he does, he may sound bad or he may sound OK. But either way his performance is his responsibility.

.
 
Hello!

Anyone have any experience playing in a band where one (or worse, all) of the members has bad time? Be it rushing, dragging, or just generally being rubbish.

I play with a band once a week, just an informal free-for-all type jam session every Tuesday. Jazz /Latin jazz standards with some blues and rock stuff thrown in. One of the people who goes, and usually plays at least half of the night, has a terrible sense of rhythm and time. Speeding everything up and playing things that throw everything out, etc. You know the type. Sounds like an energetic child with an instrument.

I can feel my timing getting worse since playing there. Mostly in that I rush things. I'm not saying my timing was ever perfect, but usually I could keep pretty consistent through a tune. Perhaps once in a while I'd try something new and speed up because of that. But now I'm gradually speeding up. So with my time already on the verge of speeding up all the time, and everyone else pulling me forward, it's no surprise that the ends are much faster than the starts.

It's surprising how difficult it can be to hold people back who want to run away!

Any advice, exercise books or generally anything to help combat? Perhaps similar to stick control but incorporating the whole kit.

Trout.

Your timing isn't getting worse, it's getting better because you're more aware of what's going on. Wanna get good solid time? Play with a shitty blues band. Keeping that together is like herding cats!

Just make sure you sit down with a metronome or other sort of device frequently for calibration.
 
I'd agree with "hold your own" but i've had this issue on stage

I jam regularly with my band for 9 years... when we get on stage it speeds up out of control. Being death metal with blasts and double kick i want to die its so hard to play. I used to think it was my fault being the drummer and the "keeper of time"

I tried to hold everyone back at the last show saying what's up before hand and reallyer slowing the songs down.. its hard fighting a bass, and 2 guitars to slow down.

if your going to "hold your own" you have to almost tune them out completly and just play what you know is right

the best way would be to jam (off stage) or play live (in ears) to a metronome. if everyone can hear a click. they HAVE to play in time and learn how....... it helps for jams, live, recording... EVERYTHING..

metronome metronome metronome
 
I play a ton at open jams myself, and one thing I've noticed about the poor-meter players is that they can be influenced, but you have to make it smooth. If they drag, bring it back up, but slowly, or do it at a transition so that they are more likely to be listening for the 1 you put down. It seems they get lost in what they are doing like we can when we focus too much on a fill. In that way, during transitions, they tend to come up for air and listen for a moment so that they will hit the change with everyone else.

The other option is to just go with it if it's really that informal. I think your worries that he can affect your overall sense of time are a bit silly, personally. Keep your click on when you practice, and don't let your real band-mates get away with poor-meter... You'll be fine. Hell, one of the reasons I like open jams a lot is that nothing too big is really expected. I can have some drinks and relax, maybe mess around with a few fills I wouldn't use yet in a formal or paid situation... Point is, relax. No real musician is going to blame you for what he is obviously doing regardless if you're up there or not.
 
Depends on what you're getting out of the gig. Sometimes the money is too good and you just have to deal with it. But, sometimes you walk because making music with incorrigible players is painful. If you can afford to walk, then sometimes you just have to move on to other things.

There are 3 things that motivate musicians: the money, the music, and the "hang". If two out of those three things are good, then keep the gig. If only one of those three things is good, then move on (if your personal finances permit you to do so).
 
one thing I've noticed about the poor-meter players is that they can be influenced, but you have to make it smooth. If they drag, bring it back up, but slowly, or do it at a transition so that they are more likely to be listening for the 1 you put down.

Good advice. You can subtly help them to stay in time, for example tapping hi-hat in sections when they are playing on their own, or giving cues when a change/stop/start is coming up.
I sometimes feel like the band is a big bus, and I'm the one driving it, LOL.
 
Oh.. open jam.


If its very informal then having the tempo change a bit isn't the end of the world. your not going to be using in ears to a click at a jam.

Just make sure if you practice on your own to use a click if your worried.
 
I'd agree with "hold your own" but i've had this issue on stage

I jam regularly with my band for 9 years... when we get on stage it speeds up out of control. Being death metal with blasts and double kick i want to die its so hard to play. I used to think it was my fault being the drummer and the "keeper of time"

I tried to hold everyone back at the last show saying what's up before hand and reallyer slowing the songs down.. its hard fighting a bass, and 2 guitars to slow down.

if your going to "hold your own" you have to almost tune them out completly and just play what you know is right

the best way would be to jam (off stage) or play live (in ears) to a metronome. if everyone can hear a click. they HAVE to play in time and learn how....... it helps for jams, live, recording... EVERYTHING..

metronome metronome metronome

You've got to make a pact with the bass player to keep the time solid. If the two of you are in sync, then the rest of the band pretty much has to follow.

My bass player and I are lucky because we basically live in each other's pocket like 95% of the time. It's so relaxing because I basically don't even have to really actively listen to him, we just sync up and groove.

If one or the other one of us gets excited and pushes the tempo, we just give the other one "the look" and bring him back. Usually what happens when a guitarist or the signer starts a song too fast, and I lock into that tempo, he gives me the look about halfway through the first section of the song and we pull it back. I don't think the rest of the band even notices.
 
Record a gig and sit down as a band and listen/try to enjoy the heavy dose of truth serum! And then each member should make the adjustments in their flawed 1st person perspective in order to create a better product from the 3rd person perspective.
 
You've got to make a pact with the bass player to keep the time solid. If the two of you are in sync, then the rest of the band pretty much has to follow.


My bass player and I are lucky because we basically live in each other's pocket like 95% of the time. It's so relaxing because I basically don't even have to really actively listen to him, we just sync up and groove.

If one or the other one of us gets excited and pushes the tempo, we just give the other one "the look" and bring him back. Usually what happens when a guitarist or the signer starts a song too fast, and I lock into that tempo, he gives me the look about halfway through the first section of the song and we pull it back. I don't think the rest of the band even notices.

HAHA I have gotten the look more than a few times.. although its a good way to communicate on stage when its loud

I also play a pretty extreme type of music so that makes it another ball game too. when your playing tempos of 220/230bpm fatigue sometimes makes you slow down or speed up if you haven't been practising lots. Same with blast beats and heavy double kick. Those parts usually tend to speed up as your powering threw a section.

playing with a metronome while practising and focusing on control, technique, and timing though all see to help.... I have all my bands songs recorded with a click track and removed the drums from the sessions so I can put the headphones on and play them all to speed.

repetition really helps
 
Agreed with the majority here - individual practice with a metronome (with or without music) will greatly help your timing. Don't get discouraged if the first time you are really ragged, keep at it. Don't get full of yourself if the first time you are spot on, keep at it.

Once you learn to internalize tempo, it simply will not distract you much if someone else gets off tempo. His errors then will be more glaring.
Ally with someone whose tempo is also tight and create the groove there. Not only will it draw in the guy with bad tempo, it will get the music cooking.

Only so much you can do if this is more of an informal jam and not a real band. But if one person obviously sucks at playing and it stops being fun because he sucks so badly, it might lead to either him dropping out or other guys dropping out. You'll need to make choices like that based on the importance of this playing situation to you personally, since there's no money and it's pretty much just for the fun.
 
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